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Using QCAD or Inkspace to get details into OpenSCAD?

T
Terrypin
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 8:04 AM

/"I don't understand how you can discuss this for so long. It is so simple."/

In addition to Jordan’s thorough reply, I’m sure you’d agree that most tasks
are ‘simple’ once you know how. Another recent example would be "How to snap
the OpenSCAD view at right angles to the XY plane?"

But I’m a novice, having installed InkSpace on Tuesday. And I’d still regard
myself as a novice with OpenSCAD too, installed 10 weeks ago. So yes, I’m
sure I’m making heavy weather of tasks that experienced users find obvious.

As you seem to have missed it, here’s the objective I described in my
opening post:
/"...getting precise measurements from a photo into OpenSCAD when accurate
physical measurements with ruler and calipers are difficult."/

It also seems you may not have read my opening post in the QCAD forum, which
I referenced in that same post:
/"Just installed QCAD which I'm hoping will help me get more accurate
measurements into OpenSCAD."/

That quickly led to recommendations on how to do so in Inkspace. My focus on
using its Trace Bitmap facility was probably naive. I now hope to learn some
of its scores of drawing tools and your video will be useful, thanks.
Although even better if you’d drawn the image I uploaded instead of that
random scribble! And perhaps added an audio or text narrative on what you
did at each step, and why?

Terry

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

/"I don't understand how you can discuss this for so long. It is so simple."/ In addition to Jordan’s thorough reply, I’m sure you’d agree that most tasks are ‘simple’ once you know how. Another recent example would be "How to snap the OpenSCAD view at right angles to the XY plane?" But I’m a novice, having installed InkSpace on Tuesday. And I’d still regard myself as a novice with OpenSCAD too, installed 10 weeks ago. So yes, I’m sure I’m making heavy weather of tasks that experienced users find obvious. As you seem to have missed it, here’s the objective I described in my opening post: /"...getting precise measurements from a photo into OpenSCAD when accurate physical measurements with ruler and calipers are difficult."/ It also seems you may not have read my opening post in the QCAD forum, which I referenced in that same post: /"Just installed QCAD which I'm hoping will help me get more accurate measurements into OpenSCAD."/ That quickly led to recommendations on how to do so in Inkspace. My focus on using its Trace Bitmap facility was probably naive. I now hope to learn some of its scores of drawing tools and your video will be useful, thanks. Although even better if you’d drawn the image I uploaded instead of that random scribble! And perhaps added an audio or text narrative on what you did at each step, and why? Terry -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
D
dpa
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 9:28 AM

I apologize for my impatient mail intro.
The answers around Inkscape I often read "export .eps". Yes this is
possible (especially since decades). But for me that's one step too much,
because you can just use .svg directly nowadays. Of course it has
rules/limits, but you can cmd+s(ave) the svg and then directly update and
see it in OpenSCAD.

I didn't read your linked site's content, sorry. So far I read it's about
getting something physical into digital using a 2D foto. I would make a
photo (further away with high zoom to avoid "fish eye") with a lineal (or
on millimeter paper) close to the object, then resize the picture in
inkscape (set to mm) until it fits.

sorry again
D

Am Do., 3. Juni 2021 um 10:04 Uhr schrieb Terrypin terrypingm@gmail.com:

"I don't understand how you can discuss this for so long. It is so
simple."

In addition to Jordan’s thorough reply, I’m sure you’d agree that most
tasks are ‘simple’ once you know how. Another recent example would be "How
to snap the OpenSCAD view at right angles to the XY plane?"

But I’m a novice, having installed InkSpace on Tuesday. And I’d still
regard myself as a novice with OpenSCAD too, installed 10 weeks ago. So
yes, I’m sure I’m making heavy weather of tasks that experienced users find
obvious.

As you seem to have missed it, here’s the objective I described in my
opening post:
"...getting precise measurements from a photo into OpenSCAD when accurate
physical measurements with ruler and calipers are difficult."

It also seems you may not have read my opening post in the QCAD forum,
which I referenced in that same post:
"Just installed QCAD which I'm hoping will help me get more accurate
measurements into OpenSCAD."

That quickly led to recommendations on how to do so in Inkspace. My focus
on using its Trace Bitmap facility was probably naive. I now hope to learn
some of its scores of drawing tools and your video will be useful, thanks.
Although even better if you’d drawn the image I uploaded instead of that
random scribble! And perhaps added an audio or text narrative on what you
did at each step, and why?

Terry


Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive http://forum.openscad.org/
at Nabble.com.


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

I apologize for my impatient mail intro. The answers around Inkscape I often read "export .eps". Yes this is possible (especially since decades). But for me that's one step too much, because you can just use .svg directly nowadays. Of course it has rules/limits, but you can cmd+s(ave) the svg and then directly update and see it in OpenSCAD. I didn't read your linked site's content, sorry. So far I read it's about getting something physical into digital using a 2D foto. I would make a photo (further away with high zoom to avoid "fish eye") with a lineal (or on millimeter paper) close to the object, then resize the picture in inkscape (set to mm) until it fits. sorry again D Am Do., 3. Juni 2021 um 10:04 Uhr schrieb Terrypin <terrypingm@gmail.com>: > *"I don't understand how you can discuss this for so long. It is so > simple."* > > In addition to Jordan’s thorough reply, I’m sure you’d agree that most > tasks are ‘simple’ once you know how. Another recent example would be "How > to snap the OpenSCAD view at right angles to the XY plane?" > > But I’m a novice, having installed InkSpace on Tuesday. And I’d still > regard myself as a novice with OpenSCAD too, installed 10 weeks ago. So > yes, I’m sure I’m making heavy weather of tasks that experienced users find > obvious. > > As you seem to have missed it, here’s the objective I described in my > opening post: > *"...getting precise measurements from a photo into OpenSCAD when accurate > physical measurements with ruler and calipers are difficult."* > > It also seems you may not have read my opening post in the QCAD forum, > which I referenced in that same post: > *"Just installed QCAD which I'm hoping will help me get more accurate > measurements into OpenSCAD."* > > That quickly led to recommendations on how to do so in Inkspace. My focus > on using its Trace Bitmap facility was probably naive. I now hope to learn > some of its scores of drawing tools and your video will be useful, thanks. > Although even better if you’d drawn the image I uploaded instead of that > random scribble! And perhaps added an audio or text narrative on what you > did at each step, and why? > > Terry > > ------------------------------ > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive <http://forum.openscad.org/> > at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
T
Terrypin
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 9:37 AM

No problem, D, it's all good learning for me!

My main handicap (apart from the unfortunate restriction of a mere 24 hours
daily) is self-made. I'm impatient to get practical results but at the same
time keen to learn methodically ;-)

Terry

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

No problem, D, it's all good learning for me! My main handicap (apart from the unfortunate restriction of a mere 24 hours daily) is self-made. I'm impatient to get practical results but at the same time keen to learn methodically ;-) Terry -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
T
Terrypin
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 10:54 AM

It probably didn't help that details were in two separate threads. Perhaps I
should have duplicated after all  ;-)

In summary this is a small practical project, my first design attempt, to
print a replacement plug cover. But primarily as a learning exercise. My
approach has varied, following different suggestions, but currently I aim to
linearly extrude an accurately traced or drawn profile to a height (Z) of
about 21mm.

Actually each of the three surfaces has a slightly different width (Y), as
well as length (X) and also tapers a bit. But I'll tackle those
complications later, together with the bolt/screw hole in the second surface
and the cable hole in the third. Right now I'm focusing just on the cover.
Call it stage #1 of this learning exercise!

Although I know that some scaling can be done in the slicer, I'd like to get
it right before that.

  1. Overhead photo with iPhone.
  2. Edit in my image editor PaintShop Pro (PSP), removing all but the profile
    due for extrusion
  3. Import into Inkspace (which I installed only two days ago) and trace or
    draw what I gather is a 'vector path'.
  4. Export that to SVG. (I have not yet pursued the DXF alternative.)
  5. Import to OpenSCAD and save to STL
  6. Slice in Cura slicing and save as gcode.

See my screenshot yesterday of the SVG imported to OpenSCAD, with the code

linear_extrude(400)
import("C:/Users/terry/Dropbox/3D
Printer/PROJECTS/PlugCover/EditedPhoto-Brightness550.svg");

Here also is a four-screenshot composite for info.

http://forum.openscad.org/file/t3184/FourScreenshots50.jpg

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

It probably didn't help that details were in two separate threads. Perhaps I should have duplicated after all ;-) In summary this is a small practical project, my first design attempt, to print a replacement plug cover. But primarily as a learning exercise. My approach has varied, following different suggestions, but currently I aim to linearly extrude an accurately traced or drawn profile to a height (Z) of about 21mm. Actually each of the three surfaces has a slightly different width (Y), as well as length (X) and also tapers a bit. But I'll tackle those complications later, together with the bolt/screw hole in the second surface and the cable hole in the third. Right now I'm focusing just on the cover. Call it stage #1 of this learning exercise! Although I know that some scaling can be done in the slicer, I'd like to get it right before that. 1. Overhead photo with iPhone. 2. Edit in my image editor PaintShop Pro (PSP), removing all but the profile due for extrusion 3. Import into Inkspace (which I installed only two days ago) and trace or draw what I gather is a 'vector path'. 5. Export that to SVG. (I have not yet pursued the DXF alternative.) 6. Import to OpenSCAD and save to STL 7. Slice in Cura slicing and save as gcode. See my screenshot yesterday of the SVG imported to OpenSCAD, with the code linear_extrude(400) import("C:/Users/terry/Dropbox/3D Printer/PROJECTS/PlugCover/EditedPhoto-Brightness550.svg"); Here also is a four-screenshot composite for info. <http://forum.openscad.org/file/t3184/FourScreenshots50.jpg> -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
D
dpa
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 11:54 AM

in your first attempt: Minkowski adds(!) the radius of the sphere in all
directions. If you want the Points as result you should use offset(-0.25)
(the radius of the sphere) before polygon.
And the extrusion also has to be reduced by 2 * radius.
like:

$fn = 32; // for smoother rounding :)
shpere_radius = 0.25; // minkowski sphere d=0.5/r=0.25, outsourced
minkowski() {
linear_extrude(height=21 - 2*shpere_radius) offset(-shpere_radius)
polygon([P0,...]); // 'P0,...' not part of this example
sphere(r=shpere_radius);
}

Tip: You can temporarily add one '!' before any instruction to see only
this result, e.g.:
minkowski() {
linear_extrude(height=21 - shpere_radius) offset(-shpere_radius) !
polygon([P0,...]);
sphere(r=shpere_radius);
}
this way you see the elements exactly and may find errors or possibilities
to exchange the code (polygon --> import)

Am Do., 3. Juni 2021 um 12:54 Uhr schrieb Terrypin terrypingm@gmail.com:

It probably didn't help that details were in two separate threads. Perhaps
I should have duplicated after all  ;-)

In summary this is a small practical project, my first design attempt, to
print a replacement plug cover. But primarily as a learning exercise. My
approach has varied, following different suggestions, but currently I aim
to linearly extrude an accurately traced or drawn profile to a height (Z)
of about 21mm.

Actually each of the three surfaces has a slightly different width (Y), as
well as length (X) and also tapers a bit. But I'll tackle those
complications later, together with the bolt/screw hole in the second
surface and the cable hole in the third. Right now I'm focusing just on the
cover. Call it stage #1 of this learning exercise!

Although I know that some scaling can be done in the slicer, I'd like to
get it right before that.

  1. Overhead photo with iPhone.
  2. Edit in my image editor PaintShop Pro (PSP), removing all but the
    profile due for extrusion
  3. Import into Inkspace (which I installed only two days ago) and trace or
    draw what I gather is a 'vector path'.
  4. Export that to SVG. (I have not yet pursued the DXF alternative.)
  5. Import to OpenSCAD and save to STL
  6. Slice in Cura slicing and save as gcode.

See my screenshot yesterday of the SVG imported to OpenSCAD, with the code

linear_extrude(400)
import("C:/Users/terry/Dropbox/3D
Printer/PROJECTS/PlugCover/EditedPhoto-Brightness550.svg");

Here also is a four-screenshot composite for info.


Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive http://forum.openscad.org/
at Nabble.com.


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

in your first attempt: Minkowski adds(!) the radius of the sphere in all directions. If you want the Points as result you should use offset(-0.25) (the radius of the sphere) before polygon. And the extrusion also has to be reduced by 2 * radius. like: $fn = 32; // for smoother rounding :) shpere_radius = 0.25; // minkowski sphere d=0.5/r=0.25, outsourced minkowski() { linear_extrude(height=21 - 2*shpere_radius) offset(-shpere_radius) polygon([P0,...]); // 'P0,...' not part of this example sphere(r=shpere_radius); } Tip: You can temporarily add one '!' before any instruction to see only this result, e.g.: minkowski() { linear_extrude(height=21 - shpere_radius) offset(-shpere_radius) *!* polygon([P0,...]); sphere(r=shpere_radius); } this way you see the elements exactly and may find errors or possibilities to exchange the code (polygon --> import) Am Do., 3. Juni 2021 um 12:54 Uhr schrieb Terrypin <terrypingm@gmail.com>: > It probably didn't help that details were in two separate threads. Perhaps > I should have duplicated after all ;-) > > In summary this is a small practical project, my first design attempt, to > print a replacement plug cover. But primarily as a learning exercise. My > approach has varied, following different suggestions, but currently I aim > to linearly extrude an accurately traced or drawn profile to a height (Z) > of about 21mm. > > Actually each of the three surfaces has a slightly different width (Y), as > well as length (X) and also tapers a bit. But I'll tackle those > complications later, together with the bolt/screw hole in the second > surface and the cable hole in the third. Right now I'm focusing just on the > cover. Call it stage #1 of this learning exercise! > > Although I know that some scaling can be done in the slicer, I'd like to > get it right before that. > > 1. Overhead photo with iPhone. > 2. Edit in my image editor PaintShop Pro (PSP), removing all but the > profile due for extrusion > 3. Import into Inkspace (which I installed only two days ago) and trace or > draw what I gather is a 'vector path'. > 5. Export that to SVG. (I have not yet pursued the DXF alternative.) > 6. Import to OpenSCAD and save to STL > 7. Slice in Cura slicing and save as gcode. > > See my screenshot yesterday of the SVG imported to OpenSCAD, with the code > > linear_extrude(400) > import("C:/Users/terry/Dropbox/3D > Printer/PROJECTS/PlugCover/EditedPhoto-Brightness550.svg"); > > Here also is a four-screenshot composite for info. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive <http://forum.openscad.org/> > at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
NH
nop head
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 11:57 AM

A couple of tips.

You don't need to specify a path to polygon if the path is simply a list of
the points in order. That is the default path, so you can just pass the
points.

To get around the fact that minkowski inflates the object you can use
offset(-0.5)  on the polygon before linear_extruding it.

Wide emails are a pain in gmail because it doesn't have horizontal scroll
bars.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 at 11:54, Terrypin terrypingm@gmail.com wrote:

It probably didn't help that details were in two separate threads. Perhaps
I should have duplicated after all  ;-)

In summary this is a small practical project, my first design attempt, to
print a replacement plug cover. But primarily as a learning exercise. My
approach has varied, following different suggestions, but currently I aim
to linearly extrude an accurately traced or drawn profile to a height (Z)
of about 21mm.

Actually each of the three surfaces has a slightly different width (Y), as
well as length (X) and also tapers a bit. But I'll tackle those
complications later, together with the bolt/screw hole in the second
surface and the cable hole in the third. Right now I'm focusing just on the
cover. Call it stage #1 of this learning exercise!

Although I know that some scaling can be done in the slicer, I'd like to
get it right before that.

  1. Overhead photo with iPhone.
  2. Edit in my image editor PaintShop Pro (PSP), removing all but the
    profile due for extrusion
  3. Import into Inkspace (which I installed only two days ago) and trace or
    draw what I gather is a 'vector path'.
  4. Export that to SVG. (I have not yet pursued the DXF alternative.)
  5. Import to OpenSCAD and save to STL
  6. Slice in Cura slicing and save as gcode.

See my screenshot yesterday of the SVG imported to OpenSCAD, with the code

linear_extrude(400)
import("C:/Users/terry/Dropbox/3D
Printer/PROJECTS/PlugCover/EditedPhoto-Brightness550.svg");

Here also is a four-screenshot composite for info.


Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive http://forum.openscad.org/
at Nabble.com.


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

A couple of tips. You don't need to specify a path to polygon if the path is simply a list of the points in order. That is the default path, so you can just pass the points. To get around the fact that minkowski inflates the object you can use offset(-0.5) on the polygon before linear_extruding it. Wide emails are a pain in gmail because it doesn't have horizontal scroll bars. On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 at 11:54, Terrypin <terrypingm@gmail.com> wrote: > It probably didn't help that details were in two separate threads. Perhaps > I should have duplicated after all ;-) > > In summary this is a small practical project, my first design attempt, to > print a replacement plug cover. But primarily as a learning exercise. My > approach has varied, following different suggestions, but currently I aim > to linearly extrude an accurately traced or drawn profile to a height (Z) > of about 21mm. > > Actually each of the three surfaces has a slightly different width (Y), as > well as length (X) and also tapers a bit. But I'll tackle those > complications later, together with the bolt/screw hole in the second > surface and the cable hole in the third. Right now I'm focusing just on the > cover. Call it stage #1 of this learning exercise! > > Although I know that some scaling can be done in the slicer, I'd like to > get it right before that. > > 1. Overhead photo with iPhone. > 2. Edit in my image editor PaintShop Pro (PSP), removing all but the > profile due for extrusion > 3. Import into Inkspace (which I installed only two days ago) and trace or > draw what I gather is a 'vector path'. > 5. Export that to SVG. (I have not yet pursued the DXF alternative.) > 6. Import to OpenSCAD and save to STL > 7. Slice in Cura slicing and save as gcode. > > See my screenshot yesterday of the SVG imported to OpenSCAD, with the code > > linear_extrude(400) > import("C:/Users/terry/Dropbox/3D > Printer/PROJECTS/PlugCover/EditedPhoto-Brightness550.svg"); > > Here also is a four-screenshot composite for info. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive <http://forum.openscad.org/> > at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
T
Terrypin
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 12:09 PM

Thanks, there was a tiny improvement. Yet to test this as a print. But
plainly manual drawing will be better when I get around to it.

http://forum.openscad.org/file/t3184/OffsetTest.jpg

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

Thanks, there was a tiny improvement. Yet to test this as a print. But plainly manual drawing will be better when I get around to it. <http://forum.openscad.org/file/t3184/OffsetTest.jpg> -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
RW
Ray West
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 12:17 PM

Is the idea that you make a plug cover (whatever that may be? I've only
seen one photo) or is the idea to precisely copy an existing item
(definition of 'precisely' may vary). The item you are trying to
replicate probably solves a problem, but it does not necessarily solve
it in the best way. If the idea is to 3d print it, on the diy type fdm
printer, then perhaps you need to tweak the design to give a better
result. I think that possibly you've leapt into inkscape, tracing
images, etc, whereas the problem you are trying to solve, (i.e. make a
cover) may need none of that. You've mentioned it is difficult to
measure it. Basic measuring will do, six inch ruler, graph paper maybe
better still a cheap digital caliper an $8 (or a $3 vernier caliper
batteries not included 😉)  will do for this sort of task, but even 
with none of those you can get to the right size by trial and error
methods and a good eye. If you have access to a flat bed scanner, then
that will give less distortion compared to a camera. If you have a
camera, then take some photos of known sized objects, at known focal
distances etc, so the lens can sort of be calibrated. (you could take a
photo of a credit card, process it/import to openscad, print it,
applying scaling so it is the same size as original, then it would give
a good starting point wrt camera/processing errors.) I have the feeling
you are battling with too many unknowns - inkscape, openscad, camera
distortion etc. Of course, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Making it simple, if you want to make a plug cover, work from the plug
you are trying to cover. If you want to accurately copy an existing plug
cover, then start by accurately copying something simpler, so you can
more easily eliminate errors. (lego brick, say?) In that way your
learning will be more able to focus on a particular aspect, instead of
wondering down disparate paths.

Best wishes,

Ray

Is the idea that you make a plug cover (whatever that may be? I've only seen one photo) or is the idea to precisely copy an existing item (definition of 'precisely' may vary). The item you are trying to replicate probably solves a problem, but it does not necessarily solve it in the best way. If the idea is to 3d print it, on the diy type fdm printer, then perhaps you need to tweak the design to give a better result. I think that possibly you've leapt into inkscape, tracing images, etc, whereas the problem you are trying to solve, (i.e. make a cover) may need none of that. You've mentioned it is difficult to measure it. Basic measuring will do, six inch ruler, graph paper maybe better still a cheap digital caliper an $8 (or a $3 vernier caliper batteries not included 😉)  will do for this sort of task, but even  with none of those you can get to the right size by trial and error methods and a good eye. If you have access to a flat bed scanner, then that will give less distortion compared to a camera. If you have a camera, then take some photos of known sized objects, at known focal distances etc, so the lens can sort of be calibrated. (you could take a photo of a credit card, process it/import to openscad, print it, applying scaling so it is the same size as original, then it would give a good starting point wrt camera/processing errors.) I have the feeling you are battling with too many unknowns - inkscape, openscad, camera distortion etc. Of course, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Making it simple, if you want to make a plug cover, work from the plug you are trying to cover. If you want to accurately copy an existing plug cover, then start by accurately copying something simpler, so you can more easily eliminate errors. (lego brick, say?) In that way your learning will be more able to focus on a particular aspect, instead of wondering down disparate paths. Best wishes, Ray
T
Terrypin
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 12:34 PM

Thanks, I’ll try those code changes. Although I probably won’t use minkowski
from now on for this part.

Re image size, would most subscribers prefer links instead, which would be
just as easy for me?

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

Thanks, I’ll try those code changes. Although I probably won’t use minkowski from now on for this part. Re image size, would most subscribers prefer links instead, which would be just as easy for me? -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
MM
Michael Möller
Thu, Jun 3, 2021 12:38 PM

My preference is inline, when it just is a small image, ~ <400px That is
usually enough to supplement the description, but requries typically you
scale down in post.

Michael, fra mobilen

tor. 3. jun. 2021 14.35 skrev Terrypin terrypingm@gmail.com:

Thanks, I’ll try those code changes. Although I probably won’t use
minkowski from now on for this part.

Re image size, would most subscribers prefer links instead, which would be
just as easy for me?

Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive http://forum.openscad.org/
at Nabble.com.


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

My preference is inline, when it just is a small image, ~ <400px That is usually enough to supplement the description, but requries typically you scale down in post. Michael, fra mobilen tor. 3. jun. 2021 14.35 skrev Terrypin <terrypingm@gmail.com>: > Thanks, I’ll try those code changes. Although I probably won’t use > minkowski from now on for this part. > > Re image size, would most subscribers prefer links instead, which would be > just as easy for me? > ------------------------------ > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive <http://forum.openscad.org/> > at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >