help with design approach

JB
Jon Bondy
Sat, May 11, 2024 12:24 PM

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind" the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

Thanks!

Jon

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

AM
Sat, May 11, 2024 12:42 PM

Perhaps a better choice of glue could work?

I don't understand your problem at all from the description.  To me it
sounds like your challenge is creating the "lips", but I don't understand
enough about the geometry to know how hard this is.  Like would sweeping a
lip cross section along a planar curve work?  Or is the curve not planar
(which creates twist issues)?  Or does the lip need to change across the
sweep because the shape it's mating to changes?

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 8:24 AM Jon Bondy via Discuss <

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind" the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

Thanks!

Jon

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

LM
Leonard Martin Struttmann
Sat, May 11, 2024 12:47 PM

My first choice would be to thoroughly clean the surfaces to remove all
traces of previous glue and tape, and then try a better glue such as epoxy
or even Superglue.

Modeling the lips should be fairly straightforward using linear_extrude of
a J shaped 2D shape.  If I get time today I'll try to make an example.

Len

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 7:24 AM Jon Bondy via Discuss <

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind" the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

Thanks!

Jon

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

GH
gene heskett
Sat, May 11, 2024 12:51 PM

On 5/11/24 08:24, Jon Bondy via Discuss wrote:

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind" the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

W/o seeing examples 1A and 1B, this is a hard thing to
visualize/analyze. Did you forget to attach those files or pix?

Thanks!

Jon

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.

• Louis D. Brandeis
LM
Leonard Martin Struttmann
Sat, May 11, 2024 1:44 PM

This is not elegant, just stream-of-consciousness coding.

[image: image.png]

\$fn=24;

lipThickness = 2;
lipWidth = 5;
lipBaseLength = 5;

linear_extrude(lipWidth)
union()
{
translate([0, lipBaseLength])
intersection()
{
square([ 20,20]);

``````difference()
{
}
``````

}

square([lipThickness,lipBaseLength]);
}

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 7:51 AM gene heskett via Discuss <

On 5/11/24 08:24, Jon Bondy via Discuss wrote:

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind" the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

W/o seeing examples 1A and 1B, this is a hard thing to
visualize/analyze. Did you forget to attach those files or pix?

Thanks!

Jon

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.

• Louis D. Brandeis

To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

JB
Jon Bondy
Sat, May 11, 2024 2:21 PM

Yep.  That was where I was heading for the cross-section of the "lips"!

On 5/11/2024 9:44 AM, Leonard Martin Struttmann via Discuss wrote:

This is not elegant, just stream-of-consciousness coding.

image.png

\$fn=24;
lipThickness = 2;
lipWidth = 5;
lipBaseLength = 5;
linear_extrude(lipWidth)
union()
{
translate([0, lipBaseLength])
intersection()
{
square([ 20,20]);
difference()
{
}
}
square([lipThickness,lipBaseLength]);
}

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 7:51 AM gene heskett via Discuss

`````` On 5/11/24 08:24, Jon Bondy via Discuss wrote:
``````

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with

`````` a curved
``````

periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions"

`````` which
``````

sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but

`````` "behind" the
``````

paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
parts which are larger than the actual paddles, with a

`````` paddle-shaped
``````

indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached

`````` with
``````

glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used). I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed

`````` after a few
``````

weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the

`````` original
``````

extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of

`````` points to
``````

specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately

`````` would take
``````

some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real

`````` challenge
``````

is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve

`````` around the
``````

inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all

`````` with
``````

(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at

`````` least I
``````

have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

`````` W/o seeing examples 1A and 1B, this is a hard thing to
visualize/analyze. Did you forget to attach those files or pix?
``````

Thanks!

Jon

`````` Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org
``````

To unsubscribe send an email todiscuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

JB
Jon Bondy
Sat, May 11, 2024 2:29 PM

Maybe this non-manifold STL will help everyone envision the shape better.

On 5/11/2024 8:42 AM, Adrian Mariano via Discuss wrote:

Perhaps a better choice of glue could work?

I don't understand your problem at all from the description.  To me it
sounds like your challenge is creating the "lips", but I don't
understand enough about the geometry to know how hard this is.  Like
would sweeping a lip cross section along a planar curve work?  Or is
the curve not planar (which creates twist issues)?  Or does the lip
need to change across the sweep because the shape it's mating to changes?

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 8:24 AM Jon Bondy via Discuss

`````` Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a
curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind"
the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after
a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the
original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of
points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would
take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real
challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve
around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

Thanks!

Jon

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org
``````

To unsubscribe send an email todiscuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

JJ
jon jonbondy.com
Sat, May 11, 2024 2:40 PM

You will notice that the object in the STL in the previous message is actually not flat: it appears to be wrapped around the surface of a fairly large sphere (diameter 10" or 20"?).

Are there any BOSL2 facilities that would take an object and warp it in this manner?  Since I have explicit 2D points lists, all I would really need to do is add a 3rd dimension I suppose.

This is what I have at the moment:

Then there is the question of how to make a shape with rounded edges that is also curved in this way (onto the sphere).

Jon

On 5/11/2024 10:29 AM, Jon Bondy via Discuss wrote:

Maybe this non-manifold STL will help everyone envision the shape better.

On 5/11/2024 8:42 AM, Adrian Mariano via Discuss wrote:
Perhaps a better choice of glue could work?

I don't understand your problem at all from the description.  To me it sounds like your challenge is creating the "lips", but I don't understand enough about the geometry to know how hard this is.  Like would sweeping a lip cross section along a planar curve work?  Or is the curve not planar (which creates twist issues)?  Or does the lip need to change across the sweep because the shape it's mating to changes?

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 8:24 AM Jon Bondy via Discuss <discuss@lists.openscad.orgmailto:discuss@lists.openscad.org> wrote:
Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind" the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

Thanks!

Jon

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com

RW
Raymond West
Sat, May 11, 2024 2:48 PM

I guess you are fdm printing the new paddle, and have your own printer.
and want to use openscad .In openscad, make a more or less accurate
model of the thing you want to clip to, subtract it from a
cube/whatever. Print it, see if it fits, repeat until you have your
clippy thing. It does not need to be an exact profile, just good enough
that it won't fall off or wobble. Then draw  your new shape, and add the
two together. The process is called rapid prototyping. Do not sweat over
getting it right first time. The test pieces can be quite quick to
print, only need the part to test the fit of the area you are working
on. Make test prints in cheap pla/petg. The final version, you want
something higher temperature, abs, asa, nylon/whatever, certainly not pla.

I wouldn't be working with points directly, unless a simple shape. I'd
treat it as solid shapes, cubes, cylinders whatever, and make it fit
where it touches. If you have a decent stl, then you can cut/add parts.
Nothing wrong with filing or sanding the printed item to fit - I guess
you are not going into manufacturing/production.

Not seeing exactly what you have, I'd most likely make  the extension as
a sleeve over the existing paddle, if it had to be 3d printed.  But,
it's simpler to clean off what you have, roughen the surface and use
araldite, or the correct solvent adhesive, as others mentioned.

On 11/05/2024 13:24, Jon Bondy via Discuss wrote:

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a
curved periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions"
which sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but
"behind" the paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the
extensions as flat parts which are larger than the actual paddles,
only attached with glue, and one came off the day I bought the car
(used).  I tried to re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but
that failed after a few weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the
original extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the
paddle shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around
the inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

Thanks!

Jon

AM
Sat, May 11, 2024 4:17 PM

Taking a flat object and mapping it to a sphere is not a well-defined
operation.  BOSL2 does not provide a feature like this.  It can wrap things
around cylinders, but that is a well-defined process.  Think about the
problem of map projections.  If you want to map an object to there sphere
there will be multiple ways to do it depending on how you distort your
object in the mapping.

But if you want to try the easiest thing and if you have your data as
points you can put it onto a sphere directly by computing z coordinates
that are on the sphere.  The simplest scheme would be to just project it
along the z axis onto a sphere, e.g. using the formula z_warped =
sqrt(r^2-x^2-y^2)+z.

You can probably warp the lip this way if you make it using path_sweep and
get the VNF out and then warp the points component of the VNF.  (The faces
won't change.)

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 10:41 AM jon jonbondy.com via Discuss <

You will notice that the object in the STL in the previous message is
actually not flat: it appears to be wrapped around the surface of a fairly
large sphere (diameter 10" or 20"?).

Are there any BOSL2 facilities that would take an object and warp it in
this manner?  Since I have explicit 2D points lists, all I would really
need to do is add a 3rd dimension I suppose.

This is what I have at the moment:

Then there is the question of how to make a shape with rounded edges that
is also curved in this way (onto the sphere).

Jon

On 5/11/2024 10:29 AM, Jon Bondy via Discuss wrote:

Maybe this non-manifold STL will help everyone envision the shape better.
On 5/11/2024 8:42 AM, Adrian Mariano via Discuss wrote:

Perhaps a better choice of glue could work?

I don't understand your problem at all from the description.  To me it
sounds like your challenge is creating the "lips", but I don't understand
enough about the geometry to know how hard this is.  Like would sweeping a
lip cross section along a planar curve work?  Or is the curve not planar
(which creates twist issues)?  Or does the lip need to change across the
sweep because the shape it's mating to changes?

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 8:24 AM Jon Bondy via Discuss <

Brainstorming, here...

I have a car with paddle shifters (thin, flat metal plates with a curved
periphery).  The car came with some paddle shifter "extensions" which
sit behind the paddles (towards the front of the car, but "behind" the
paddles from where I sit to drive). Think of the extensions as flat
indentation into which the paddles sit.  They are only attached with
glue, and one came off the day I bought the car (used).  I tried to
re-attach it with double-sided sticky tape, but that failed after a few
weeks, so I am done with glue.

What I want to do is 1) design a part that is identical to the original
extension and then 2) add flexible "lips" to go around the paddle
shifter to hold the extension in place.

I can do (1) by photographing it and determining a series of points to
specify the outer and inner shapes (1A).  This is easy to do
approximately (and I have done so), but doing it accurately would take
some time fiddling with the point list.

I could also do (1) by scanning the part (also done) (1B).

Although the above for (1) is a little challenging, the real challenge
is how to create (2), the "lips" that wrap around the edge of the
paddles to keep the extension in place.  The lips must curve around the
inner shape (the one that defines the outside of the indentation).

I imagine that scanning (1B) will solve (1) but not help at all with
(2).  If I use the hand-crafted points approach (1B), then at least I
have a defined curve around which I can sweep the lip cross-section.

Thanks!

Jon

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

Virus-free.www.avg.com