Render and F6
Does render() do anything in F6 if F5 has not been run first, or the cache
is cleared?
This simple test appears to show it doesn't
$fn = 32;
render() difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
I ask because a user of NopSCADlib added a conditional render that skips in
F5. I.e. render_if(!$preview). Does that make it a NOP?
AFAIK render() always renders, the render processing [F6 or render()] will
look at the child objects, and
if in cache, unchanged, will not re-render them. Hence if not in cache will.
Likewise F5 will render children, during which it won't re-render if in
cache, unchanged.
Guessing at the render_if() code.
If it is;
module render_if(bool)
if (bool)
render() children();
Then with bool=false it is a F5 NOP but will F6/render the children .
If it has
else
children()
Then both F5/preview & F6/render will process appropriately (OpenGl or
CGAL).
If that is not it, you need to clarify or post code.
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
- on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.
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Clarification
MichaelAtOz wrote
Likewise F5,
with render()
, will render children, during which it won't re-render if in
cache, unchanged.
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
- on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.
Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; to the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
--
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The code is here:
https://github.com/nophead/NopSCADlib/blob/master/utils/core/global.scad#L55,
so it always calls the children but wraps them with render() when the
argument is true.
What I am asking is if it is passed !$preview will it be a NOP. It won't do
anything during F5 as it won't call render(), it will just draw the
children. During F6 it calls render() but my mental model of render() is
that all it does in F6 is look for a cached Polyset from F5. If it doesn't
find one it is a NOP, it just calculates the children with CGAL as it would
anyway.If it does find a cached version from F5 it is a Polyset and you can
tell because the cut faces are the same colour as the rest.
With this simple test:
$fn = 32;
render() difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
Flush cache F6 gives this:
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900396-200be180-4464-11eb-93a5-f2b1ac825245.png
Top level object is a 3D object:
Simple: yes
Vertices: 467
Halfedges: 2572
Edges: 1286
Halffacets: 1642
Facets: 821
Volumes: 2
F5 and then F6 gives this:
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900596-6c572180-4464-11eb-98d5-d7285b11bb49.png
Top level object is a 3D object:
Facets: 930
If I change it to render_if(!$preview) I always get a CGAL object with the
pale cut face. It is never replaced with a Polyset.
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result when
the cache hasn't been populated by F5?
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 05:34, MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com wrote:
Clarification
MichaelAtOz wrote
Likewise F5,
with render()
, will render children, during which it won't re-render if in
cache, unchanged.
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done
something stupid...
- on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.
Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the
Public Domain; to the extent possible under law, I have waived all
copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. Obviously
inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
--
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OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
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I suspect you have hit a bug.
Using this code;
$fn = 96; // make it work hard so you notice CGAL
bool= (0) ? false : !$preview; // option to set manually
echo(bool=bool, $preview=$preview);
render_if(bool)
difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
module render_if(render = true, convexity = 2)
if (render) {
echo("render()");
render(convexity = convexity)
children();
}
else
children();
And using Design/Flush-cache, after a few iterations, I got an F5 with no object in the viewing
area.
Is that what you are calling a NOP?
This is the console;
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file: /home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = false, $preview = true
Compiling design (CSG Products generation)...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 0
CGAL cache size in bytes: 0
Compiling design (CSG Products normalization)...
Normalized tree has 2 elements!
Compile and preview finished.
Total rendering time: 0:00:00.023
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file: /home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = true, $preview = false
ECHO:"render()"
Rendering Polygon Mesh using CGAL...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 2
CGAL cache size in bytes: 20418224
Total rendering time: 0:00:06.272
Top level object is a 3D object:
Simple: yes
Vertices: 4083
Halfedges: 23820
Edges: 11910
Halffacets: 15658
Facets: 7829
Volumes: 2
Rendering finished.
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file: /home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = false, $preview = true
Compiling design (CSG Products generation)...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 2
CGAL cache size in bytes: 20418224
Compiling design (CSG Products normalization)...
Normalized tree has 2 elements!
Compile and preview finished.
Total rendering time: 0:00:00.022
The first is F5 [render() not called - standard preview], view area normal.
The second is F6 [render() is called] - CGAL processing as per 6 seconds, view area normal.
Flush Cache, then third is F5 [render() not called, supposed to be standard preview], blank view
area.
Once that happened it was repeatable, but after restarting not.
I suspect a cache problem.
2020.12.15 on Debian. I don't think I had it on Windows...yet.
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result when the cache hasn't been
populated by F5?
Unfortunately I didn't then try another F6.
But the first F6 (following F5 without render() - hence not cached), did call render() which did
normal CGAL processing.
These are nasty bugs...
From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.openscad.org] On Behalf Of nop head
Sent: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 21:00
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Render and F6
The code is here: https://github.com/nophead/NopSCADlib/blob/master/utils/core/global.scad#L55, so
it always calls the children but wraps them with render() when the argument is true.
What I am asking is if it is passed !$preview will it be a NOP. It won't do anything during F5 as
it won't call render(), it will just draw the children. During F6 it calls render() but my mental
model of render() is that all it does in F6 is look for a cached Polyset from F5. If it doesn't
find one it is a NOP, it just calculates the children with CGAL as it would anyway.If it does find
a cached version from F5 it is a Polyset and you can tell because the cut faces are the same colour
as the rest.
With this simple test:
$fn = 32;
render() difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
Flush cache F6 gives this:
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900396-200be180-4464-11eb-93a5-f2b1ac825245.pn
g> image
Top level object is a 3D object:
Simple: yes
Vertices: 467
Halfedges: 2572
Edges: 1286
Halffacets: 1642
Facets: 821
Volumes: 2
F5 and then F6 gives this:
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900596-6c572180-4464-11eb-98d5-d7285b11bb49.pn
g> image
Top level object is a 3D object:
Facets: 930
If I change it to render_if(!$preview) I always get a CGAL object with the pale cut face. It is
never replaced with a Polyset.
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result when the cache hasn't been
populated by F5?
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 05:34, MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com wrote:
Clarification
MichaelAtOz wrote
Likewise F5,
with render()
, will render children, during which it won't re-render if in
cache, unchanged.
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
- on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.
Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; to the extent
possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work.
Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
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Is that what you are calling a NOP?
No, I haven't seen any bugs. What I am asking is if I insert
render_if(!preview) does it affect the result in any way? My argument is it
does nothing at all and is pointless.
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 02:38, MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com wrote:
I suspect you have hit a bug.
Using this code;
$fn = 96; // make it work hard so you notice CGAL
bool= (0) ? false : !$preview; // option to set manually
echo(bool=bool, $preview=$preview);
render_if(bool)
difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
module render_if(render = true, convexity = 2)
if (render) {
echo("render()");
render(convexity = convexity)
children();
}
else
children();
And using Design/Flush-cache, after a few iterations, I got an F5 with no
object in the viewing area.
Is that what you are calling a NOP?
This is the console;
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file:
/home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = false, $preview = true
Compiling design (CSG Products generation)...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 0
CGAL cache size in bytes: 0
Compiling design (CSG Products normalization)...
Normalized tree has 2 elements!
Compile and preview finished.
Total rendering time: 0:00:00.023
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file:
/home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = true, $preview = false
ECHO:"render()"
Rendering Polygon Mesh using CGAL...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 2
CGAL cache size in bytes: 20418224
Total rendering time: 0:00:06.272
Top level object is a 3D object:
Simple: yes
Vertices: 4083
Halfedges: 23820
Edges: 11910
Halffacets: 15658
Facets: 7829
Volumes: 2
Rendering finished.
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file:
/home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = false, $preview = true
Compiling design (CSG Products generation)...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 2
CGAL cache size in bytes: 20418224
Compiling design (CSG Products normalization)...
Normalized tree has 2 elements!
Compile and preview finished.
Total rendering time: 0:00:00.022
The first is F5 [render() not called - standard preview], view area normal.
The second is F6 [render() is called] - CGAL processing as per 6 seconds,
view area normal.
Flush Cache, then third is F5 [render() not called, supposed to be
standard preview], blank view area.
Once that happened it was repeatable, but after restarting not.
I suspect a cache problem.
2020.12.15 on Debian. I don't think I had it on Windows...yet.
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result
when the cache hasn't been populated by F5?
Unfortunately I didn't then try another F6.
But the first F6 (following F5 without render() - hence not cached), did
call render() which did normal CGAL processing.
These are nasty bugs...
From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.openscad.org] *On Behalf Of
*nop head
Sent: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 21:00
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Render and F6
The code is here:
https://github.com/nophead/NopSCADlib/blob/master/utils/core/global.scad#L55,
so it always calls the children but wraps them with render() when the
argument is true.
What I am asking is if it is passed !$preview will it be a NOP. It won't
do anything during F5 as it won't call render(), it will just draw the
children. During F6 it calls render() but my mental model of render() is
that all it does in F6 is look for a cached Polyset from F5. If it doesn't
find one it is a NOP, it just calculates the children with CGAL as it would
anyway.If it does find a cached version from F5 it is a Polyset and you can
tell because the cut faces are the same colour as the rest.
With this simple test:
$fn = 32;
render() difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
Flush cache F6 gives this:
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900396-200be180-4464-11eb-93a5-f2b1ac825245.png
Top level object is a 3D object:
Simple: yes
Vertices: 467
Halfedges: 2572
Edges: 1286
Halffacets: 1642
Facets: 821
Volumes: 2
F5 and then F6 gives this:
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900596-6c572180-4464-11eb-98d5-d7285b11bb49.png
Top level object is a 3D object:
Facets: 930
If I change it to render_if(!$preview) I always get a CGAL object with
the pale cut face. It is never replaced with a Polyset.
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result when
the cache hasn't been populated by F5?
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 05:34, MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com wrote:
Clarification
MichaelAtOz wrote
Likewise F5,
with render()
, will render children, during which it won't re-render if in
cache, unchanged.
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done
something stupid...
- on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email
me.
Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the
Public Domain; to the extent possible under law, I have waived all
copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. Obviously
inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
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rotate_extrude warns it is going to be obsolete in next versions, but
what is going to be the alternative technique?
Ok, to answer your question;
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result when the cache hasn't been
populated by F5
My understanding is render() does not ADD anything that F6 does anyway, render() is a helper for
preview.
If the objects in question have not been F5+render()'ed nor F6 rendered [hence not in cache], or if
flushed caches, then
the objects are not in cache, when render-process examines the object it looks it in the cache,
does not find it,
then performs usual CGAL/Clipper render of the operation [either create an atomic object, or a CSG
operation].
I'm not understanding what your concern is.
A render_if(!$preview) is pretty straight forward.
It will never call 'render() children()' with F5/preview, so IF that is what you mean as a NOP,
then yes it is redundant.
With F6 it will always 'process' the render(), which just render-processes the inherent child
objects, so render() during F6 is also redundant.
BUT that is how render_if() is written, if called with !$preview, it is redundant.
BUT that does not make it an actual NOP, without checking I expect it does a group() or similar.
You would have to think about behaviour with lazy-union tho.
That depends on what you mean by NOP.
BUT there has been a long term problem with F5 then F6 v's just F6.
That (AFAIK) is cached polyset converted from Nef CGAL or Clipper, being different to F6 Nef.
i.e. F5 render() is != F6, IMHO, causing geometry inconsistencies.
As I said, I'm not understanding what your concern is.
From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.openscad.org] On Behalf Of nop head
Sent: Thu, 24 Dec 2020 18:47
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Render and F6
Is that what you are calling a NOP?
No, I haven't seen any bugs. What I am asking is if I insert render_if(!preview) does it affect the
result in any way? My argument is it does nothing at all and is pointless.
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 02:38, MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com wrote:
I suspect you have hit a bug.
Using this code;
$fn = 96; // make it work hard so you notice CGAL
bool= (0) ? false : !$preview; // option to set manually
echo(bool=bool, $preview=$preview);
render_if(bool)
difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
module render_if(render = true, convexity = 2)
if (render) {
echo("render()");
render(convexity = convexity)
children();
}
else
children();
And using Design/Flush-cache, after a few iterations, I got an F5 with no object in the viewing
area.
Is that what you are calling a NOP?
This is the console;
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file: /home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = false, $preview = true
Compiling design (CSG Products generation)...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 0
CGAL cache size in bytes: 0
Compiling design (CSG Products normalization)...
Normalized tree has 2 elements!
Compile and preview finished.
Total rendering time: 0:00:00.023
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file: /home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = true, $preview = false
ECHO:"render()"
Rendering Polygon Mesh using CGAL...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 2
CGAL cache size in bytes: 20418224
Total rendering time: 0:00:06.272
Top level object is a 3D object:
Simple: yes
Vertices: 4083
Halfedges: 23820
Edges: 11910
Halffacets: 15658
Facets: 7829
Volumes: 2
Rendering finished.
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file: /home/mebd/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/unsaved-backup-LhX27681.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
ECHO:bool = false, $preview = true
Compiling design (CSG Products generation)...
Geometries in cache: 2
Geometry cache size in bytes: 655216
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 2
CGAL cache size in bytes: 20418224
Compiling design (CSG Products normalization)...
Normalized tree has 2 elements!
Compile and preview finished.
Total rendering time: 0:00:00.022
The first is F5 [render() not called - standard preview], view area normal.
The second is F6 [render() is called] - CGAL processing as per 6 seconds, view area normal.
Flush Cache, then third is F5 [render() not called, supposed to be standard preview], blank view
area.
Once that happened it was repeatable, but after restarting not.
I suspect a cache problem.
2020.12.15 on Debian. I don't think I had it on Windows...yet.
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result when the cache hasn't been
populated by F5?
Unfortunately I didn't then try another F6.
But the first F6 (following F5 without render() - hence not cached), did call render() which did
normal CGAL processing.
These are nasty bugs...
From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.openscad.org] On Behalf Of nop head
Sent: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 21:00
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Render and F6
The code is here: https://github.com/nophead/NopSCADlib/blob/master/utils/core/global.scad#L55, so
it always calls the children but wraps them with render() when the argument is true.
What I am asking is if it is passed !$preview will it be a NOP. It won't do anything during F5 as
it won't call render(), it will just draw the children. During F6 it calls render() but my mental
model of render() is that all it does in F6 is look for a cached Polyset from F5. If it doesn't
find one it is a NOP, it just calculates the children with CGAL as it would anyway.If it does find
a cached version from F5 it is a Polyset and you can tell because the cut faces are the same colour
as the rest.
With this simple test:
$fn = 32;
render() difference() {
sphere();
cube();
}
Flush cache F6 gives this:
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900396-200be180-4464-11eb-93a5-f2b1ac825245.pn
g> image
Top level object is a 3D object:
Simple: yes
Vertices: 467
Halfedges: 2572
Edges: 1286
Halffacets: 1642
Facets: 821
Volumes: 2
F5 and then F6 gives this:
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/566149/102900596-6c572180-4464-11eb-98d5-d7285b11bb49.pn
g> image
Top level object is a 3D object:
Facets: 930
If I change it to render_if(!$preview) I always get a CGAL object with the pale cut face. It is
never replaced with a Polyset.
So my question is does render() do anything at all to the F6 result when the cache hasn't been
populated by F5?
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 05:34, MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com wrote:
Clarification
MichaelAtOz wrote
Likewise F5,
with render()
, will render children, during which it won't re-render if in
cache, unchanged.
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
- on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.
Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; to the extent
possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work.
Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
--
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On 24.12.2020 08:58, Juan C.Cilleruelo wrote:
rotate_extrude warns it is going to be obsolete in next versions, but
what is going to be the alternative technique?
I think you are looking at a bug. Consider the code below in alternative
variants A and B
Variant A
rotate_extrude(angle=45)
translate([20,0,0])
circle(5);
Variant B
rotate_extrude(45)
translate([20,0,0])
circle(5);
Variant A works fine providing a 45 degree segment.
Variant B produces a weird claim about reading files in rotate_extrude,
and no result (OpenSCAD version 2019.05):
Parsing design (AST generation)...
Saved backup file:
/home/ca/.local/share/OpenSCAD/backups/rotate-backup-nSL14156.scad
Compiling design (CSG Tree generation)...
DEPRECATED: Support for reading files in rotate_extrude will be removed
in future releases. Use a child import() instead.
Rendering Polygon Mesh using CGAL...
Geometries in cache: 4
Geometry cache size in bytes: 9904
CGAL Polyhedrons in cache: 0
CGAL cache size in bytes: 0
Total rendering time: 0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds
Rendering finished.
So I am guessing your code (that you did not share) is similar to
Variant B ?
Apparently, OpenSCAD thinks rotate_extrude(45) is means
rotate_extrude(file=45) instead of rotate_extrude(angle=45) which is
kind of weird.
Carsten Arnholm
Juan, please do not reply to another thread with a new topic.
You replied to my post 'Re: [OpenSCAD] Render and F6' with your
new subject 'Re: What't the alternative to rotate_extrude?'.
But because the email history has a tag, it gets posted to the original
thread.
If you want to raise a new topic, create a new email to
discuss@lists.openscad.org with a new subject.
I have moved your post in the forum.
RE your question, I note the wiki says "You must use parameter names due to
a backward compatibility issue." so use angle=
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
- on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.
Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; to the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
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