Empathy List Archives

BC

Bob Cousins

Fri, May 22, 2015 2:01 PM

AMF does have a way to support that, by specifying a composite material
with a function depending on z axis. That is a use case outside what I have
considered so far, and I'm not sure how many slicers support that sort of
"advanced AMF". I will add it to the list though.

On 22 May 2015 at 09:45, biskero biskero@gmail.com wrote:

Ciao,

I read the thread and looks very interesting. I am new here so hopefully I
am not out of space in what I say! :)
I am building a large 3D printer with multi materials and I am interested
in
a Openscad solution to this.

So the first idea that would come to my mind is to have multi material per
different layers based on a simple %. Let say you have an object with hight
or thickness of 10mm, I would specify to have 25% layers alternate the
materials between the one you choose. Does it make sense?

Right know I have a very large object 1000mm and I need to alternate 2 or 3
materials based on layers so that I would have a sandwich of 3 layers with
3
materials.

Isn't the AMF format suitable for that?
Thanks in advance!

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AMF does have a way to support that, by specifying a composite material with a function depending on z axis. That is a use case outside what I have considered so far, and I'm not sure how many slicers support that sort of "advanced AMF". I will add it to the list though. On 22 May 2015 at 09:45, biskero <biskero@gmail.com> wrote: > Ciao, > > I read the thread and looks very interesting. I am new here so hopefully I > am not out of space in what I say! :) > I am building a large 3D printer with multi materials and I am interested > in > a Openscad solution to this. > > So the first idea that would come to my mind is to have multi material per > different layers based on a simple %. Let say you have an object with hight > or thickness of 10mm, I would specify to have 25% layers alternate the > materials between the one you choose. Does it make sense? > > Right know I have a very large object 1000mm and I need to alternate 2 or 3 > materials based on layers so that I would have a sandwich of 3 layers with > 3 > materials. > > Isn't the AMF format suitable for that? > Thanks in advance! > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12726.html > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@lists.openscad.org > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org >

B

biskero

Fri, May 22, 2015 5:37 PM

Ciao,

thanks for the infos,

Here another video on what it means printing with different
layers/materials, in this case kevlar and nylon:

https://youtu.be/qaieXVIOMc8

Alessandro

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Ciao, thanks for the infos, Here another video on what it means printing with different layers/materials, in this case kevlar and nylon: https://youtu.be/qaieXVIOMc8 Alessandro -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12730.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

YS

Yvette S. Hirth, CCP, CDP

Fri, May 22, 2015 6:07 PM

On 05/22/2015 10:37 AM, biskero wrote:

Here another video on what it means printing with different
layers/materials, in this case kevlar and nylon:

https://youtu.be/qaieXVIOMc8

what printer was used? please let us know!

thanks
yvette

On 05/22/2015 10:37 AM, biskero wrote: > Here another video on what it means printing with different > layers/materials, in this case kevlar and nylon: > https://youtu.be/qaieXVIOMc8 what printer was used? please let us know! thanks yvette

B

biskero

Fri, May 22, 2015 6:10 PM

Ciao,

the printer is made by a company based in Cambridge/Boston, here a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuu7UD2GVk

They are doing special filaments development too.

Alessandro

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Ciao, the printer is made by a company based in Cambridge/Boston, here a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuu7UD2GVk They are doing special filaments development too. Alessandro -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12732.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

PF

Peter Falke

Sat, May 23, 2015 9:14 AM

b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say Diamond
Hotend http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend

Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color
mixing.
There is no mixing chamber.
The 3 colors meet in the center and come out together like toothpaste, one
color one one side.

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g0fiWx8RyM

2015-05-22 20:10 GMT+02:00 biskero biskero@gmail.com:

Ciao,

the printer is made by a company based in Cambridge/Boston, here a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuu7UD2GVk

They are doing special filaments development too.

Alessandro

--
View this message in context:
http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12732.html
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--
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P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist:
Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu
schreiben.
Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen.

P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy:
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Please let me know, if you like to read more.

Enjoy!

b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say Diamond Hotend <http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend> Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color mixing. There is no mixing chamber. The 3 colors meet in the center and come out together like toothpaste, one color one one side. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g0fiWx8RyM 2015-05-22 20:10 GMT+02:00 biskero <biskero@gmail.com>: > Ciao, > > the printer is made by a company based in Cambridge/Boston, here a video > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbuu7UD2GVk > > They are doing special filaments development too. > > Alessandro > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12732.html > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@lists.openscad.org > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org > -- stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com <karsten@rohrbach.de> P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist: Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu schreiben. Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen. P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy: I am currently trying short replies instead of no replies at all. Please let me know, if you like to read more. Enjoy!

M

MichaelAtOz

Sun, May 24, 2015 1:16 AM

Peter Falke wrote

Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color
mixing.
There is no mixing chamber.
The 3 colors meet in the center and come out together like toothpaste, one
color one one side.

I'm still doing my research. That can still be useful for different material
properties, such as ABS & NinjaFlex to have variable flexibility.

So for colours in this discussion, say the one here
http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/a/a5/Pia-taubert-material-mixing-report.pdf
(skip to [pdf page num] 32 if you don't want history of 3D printing, or pg
18 if you want to read about colour theory). It uses active mixing ie
motorised.

It also proposes a G-code method to control multiple extruders at varying
rates of output. Basically all the extruder ratios (0-1) add up to 1, and
they are extruded at those rates to the overall E extrude number, at any
point in time. See pg 40+.

So when such a technique progresses some means of representing those ratios
in the material specification is needed.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12737.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Peter Falke wrote > Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color > mixing. > There is no mixing chamber. > The 3 colors meet in the center and come out together like toothpaste, one > color one one side. I'm still doing my research. That can still be useful for different material properties, such as ABS & NinjaFlex to have variable flexibility. So for colours in this discussion, say the one here <http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/a/a5/Pia-taubert-material-mixing-report.pdf> (skip to [pdf page num] 32 if you don't want history of 3D printing, or pg 18 if you want to read about colour theory). It uses active mixing ie motorised. It also proposes a G-code method to control multiple extruders at varying rates of output. Basically all the extruder ratios (0-1) add up to 1, and they are extruded at those rates to the overall E extrude number, at any point in time. See pg 40+. So when such a technique progresses some means of representing those ratios in the material specification is needed. ----- Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above. The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/ -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12737.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

M

MichaelAtOz

Sun, May 24, 2015 3:40 AM

Peter Falke wrote

b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say Diamond
Hotend <http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend>

Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color
mixing.
There is no mixing chamber.

Actually have a look at mixing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saryph9t9L8 with the diamond head. Looks
promising.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12739.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Peter Falke wrote > b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say Diamond > Hotend <http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend> > > > Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color > mixing. > There is no mixing chamber. Actually have a look at mixing <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saryph9t9L8> with the diamond head. Looks promising. ----- Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above. The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/ -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12739.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

PF

Peter Falke

Tue, May 26, 2015 9:18 AM

With the partly transparent PLA there doesnt seem to be a toothpaste effect.
But if you look at the print with (non-transparent) black and copper you`ll
see it quiet clearly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr88NUZ6XnY

2015-05-24 5:40 GMT+02:00 MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com:

Peter Falke wrote

b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say

Diamond

Hotend <http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend>

Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color
mixing.
There is no mixing chamber.

Actually have a look at mixing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saryph9t9L8 with the diamond head.
Looks
promising.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the
Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all
copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is
published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous
authors is not included in the above.

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it!
http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

View this message in context:
http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12739.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

--
stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com karsten@rohrbach.de

P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist:
Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu
schreiben.
Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen.

P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy:
I am currently trying short replies instead of no replies at all.
Please let me know, if you like to read more.

Enjoy!

With the partly transparent PLA there doesnt seem to be a toothpaste effect. But if you look at the print with (non-transparent) black and copper you`ll see it quiet clearly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr88NUZ6XnY 2015-05-24 5:40 GMT+02:00 MichaelAtOz <oz.at.michael@gmail.com>: > Peter Falke wrote > > b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say > Diamond > > Hotend <http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend> > > > > > > Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color > > mixing. > > There is no mixing chamber. > > Actually have a look at mixing > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saryph9t9L8> with the diamond head. > Looks > promising. > > > > ----- > Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the > Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all > copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is > published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous > authors is not included in the above. > > The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! > http://www.ourfairdeal.org/ > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12739.html > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@lists.openscad.org > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org > -- stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com <karsten@rohrbach.de> P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist: Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu schreiben. Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen. P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy: I am currently trying short replies instead of no replies at all. Please let me know, if you like to read more. Enjoy!

PF

Peter Falke

Tue, May 26, 2015 9:36 AM

http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/a/a5/Pia-taubert-material-mixing-report.pdf
is very interesting. It uses a a vertical rod of hexagonal shape that
rotates continuously and actively mixes
two (or in this design up to six different colors) colors together:
[image: Inline-Bild 1]

2015-05-26 11:18 GMT+02:00 Peter Falke stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com
:

With the partly transparent PLA there doesnt seem to be a toothpaste
effect.
But if you look at the print with (non-transparent) black and copper
you`ll see it quiet clearly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr88NUZ6XnY

2015-05-24 5:40 GMT+02:00 MichaelAtOz oz.at.michael@gmail.com:

Peter Falke wrote

b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say

Diamond

Hotend <http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend>

Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color
mixing.
There is no mixing chamber.

Actually have a look at mixing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saryph9t9L8 with the diamond head.
Looks
promising.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the
Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all
copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is
published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous
authors is not included in the above.

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it!
http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

View this message in context:
http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12739.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

--
stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com karsten@rohrbach.de

P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist:
Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu
schreiben.
Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen.

P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy:
I am currently trying short replies instead of no replies at all.
Please let me know, if you like to read more.

Enjoy!

--
stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com karsten@rohrbach.de

P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist:
Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu
schreiben.
Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen.

P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy:
I am currently trying short replies instead of no replies at all.
Please let me know, if you like to read more.

Enjoy!

http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/a/a5/Pia-taubert-material-mixing-report.pdf is very interesting. It uses a a vertical rod of hexagonal shape that rotates continuously and actively mixes two (or in this design up to six different colors) colors together: [image: Inline-Bild 1] 2015-05-26 11:18 GMT+02:00 Peter Falke <stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com> : > With the partly transparent PLA there doesnt seem to be a toothpaste > effect. > But if you look at the print with (non-transparent) black and copper > you`ll see it quiet clearly: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr88NUZ6XnY > > > > 2015-05-24 5:40 GMT+02:00 MichaelAtOz <oz.at.michael@gmail.com>: > >> Peter Falke wrote >> > b. multiple extruder with mixing hotend. (for this discussion say >> Diamond >> > Hotend <http://reprap.org/wiki/Diamond_Hotend> >> > >> > >> > Please be aware that a nozzle like Diamond Hotend does not do a color >> > mixing. >> > There is no mixing chamber. >> >> Actually have a look at mixing >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saryph9t9L8> with the diamond head. >> Looks >> promising. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the >> Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all >> copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is >> published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous >> authors is not included in the above. >> >> The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! >> http://www.ourfairdeal.org/ >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12739.html >> Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> Discuss@lists.openscad.org >> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org >> > > > > -- > stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com <karsten@rohrbach.de> > > P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist: > Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu > schreiben. > Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen. > > P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy: > I am currently trying short replies instead of no replies at all. > Please let me know, if you like to read more. > > Enjoy! > -- stempeldergeschichte@googlemail.com <karsten@rohrbach.de> P.S. Falls meine E-Mail kürzer ausfällt als Dir angenehm ist: Ich probiere gerade aus kurze Antworten statt gar keine Antworten zu schreiben. Wenn Du gerne mehr lesen möchtest, dann lass es mich bitte wissen. P.S. In case my e-mail is shorter than you enjoy: I am currently trying short replies instead of no replies at all. Please let me know, if you like to read more. Enjoy!

M

MichaelAtOz

Tue, May 26, 2015 11:05 AM

Yes. So what I'm trying to say is that this capability is incoming, so
whatever internal mechanisms need to be designed with this as a future
possibility, not necessarily now, but choosing an implementation now, needs
to recognise that this will be a next step.

Although it may be Real-Soon-Now (TM).

I'm looking into slicers support, to be documented shortly, but so far, they
seem to be single material only. But my searches are in early stages.

I note a comment at reprep.org from 2012, basically saying multi-stuff is
chicken and egg, without support in slicers/firmware multi-stuff is not
needed in OpenSCAD, while without support in OpenSCAD mutli-stuff, does not
need to be supported in slicers/firmware.

So at least, slic3r, supports AMF with multi materials (details to follow),
so to advance, we need OpenSCAD to support multi-materials in AMF export,
soonish.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12752.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Yes. So what I'm trying to say is that this capability is incoming, so whatever internal mechanisms need to be designed with this as a future possibility, not necessarily now, but choosing an implementation now, needs to recognise that this will be a next step. Although it may be Real-Soon-Now (TM). I'm looking into slicers support, to be documented shortly, but so far, they seem to be single material only. But my searches are in early stages. I note a comment at reprep.org from 2012, basically saying multi-stuff is chicken and egg, without support in slicers/firmware multi-stuff is not needed in OpenSCAD, while without support in OpenSCAD mutli-stuff, does not need to be supported in slicers/firmware. So at least, slic3r, supports AMF with multi materials (details to follow), so to advance, we need OpenSCAD to support multi-materials in AMF export, soonish. ----- Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; To the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. This work is published globally via the internet. :) Inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above. The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/ -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/Semantics-CSG-ops-with-respect-to-color-materials-tp12667p12752.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

discuss@lists.openscad.org

Semantics CSG ops with respect to color, materials

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it!
http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it!
http://www.ourfairdeal.org/

The TPP is no simple “trade agreement.” Fight it! http://www.ourfairdeal.org/