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Re: SVG from Inkspace opens OK but DXF does not

D
dpa
Wed, Jun 23, 2021 11:39 AM

Hey Terry

I opened your revised DXF in OpenSCAD but the proportions seem correct

to me. (x/y = about 1.75). Do you mean it's displayed at a different
size and screen position?

My revised .dxf contains the same as the .svg at (almost) the same
position. But after importing .dxf into OpenSCAD it is smaller than
expected. I don't know the reason. With .svg it works correctly.

If so, that's a related aspect I have yet to understand! Specifically,
to get the OpenSCAD scale markers to show the correct (physically
measured) size, is the recommended method to do that in Inkscape (or
maybe QCAD), or in OpenSCAD? And if the latter, what is the best way to
proceed please?

well.. I work in inkscape, did a default template with all set to 'mm',
using the bottom left corner as the origin and save normal .svg which I
import in OpenSCAD. If you use no- or just one Layer this just works great.
I see one advantage using .dxf: in contrast to .svg you can import layers
by adding layer="Layer 1".

But the problem with the size is strange. I found that scale=3.544 brings
the dxf to the same size. Does anyone know this number?
this both are (approximately) the same:
linear_extrude(11) import("Outline2Black.svg");
linear_extrude(11) scale(3.544) import("Outline2Black.dxf");

When I repeated opening my DXF, this time I got:
WARNING: Unsupported DXF Entity 'SPLINE' (fc) in "Outline2Black.dxf".

I would guess that they are single lines again? It is best not to work with
lines but with filled objects, then you see the body and additionally the
line widths have no width by itself (maybe a trap).


Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have
removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did
before saving your DXF?

I just opened your .svg (what was correct) and saved it as dxf. 😎
repairing all the single line objects to one object I imagine that would be
very time-consuming. Wenn Du es nur so machen kannst dann: Tool "edit paths
by nodes" (shortcut: F2 or n), find the ends nodes of the lines (select
both lines), the select both nodes and connect them by using the tool "Join
selected nodes"  [image: Bildschirmfoto 2021-06-23 um 13.36.30.png] (looks
certainly different at your computer). But this outline so far I see is so
simple, I would redraw it.

D

Hey Terry I opened your revised DXF in OpenSCAD but the proportions seem correct > to me. (x/y = about 1.75). Do you mean it's displayed at a different > size and screen position? > My revised .dxf contains the same as the .svg at (almost) the same position. But after importing .dxf into OpenSCAD it is smaller than expected. I don't know the reason. With .svg it works correctly. > If so, that's a related aspect I have yet to understand! Specifically, > to get the OpenSCAD scale markers to show the correct (physically > measured) size, is the recommended method to do that in Inkscape (or > maybe QCAD), or in OpenSCAD? And if the latter, what is the best way to > proceed please? > well.. I work in inkscape, did a default template with all set to 'mm', using the bottom left corner as the origin and save normal .svg which I import in OpenSCAD. If you use no- or just one Layer this just works great. I see one advantage using .dxf: in contrast to .svg you can import layers by adding layer="Layer 1". But the problem with the size is strange. I found that scale=3.544 brings the dxf to the same size. Does anyone know this number? this both are (approximately) the same: linear_extrude(11) import("Outline2Black.svg"); linear_extrude(11) scale(3.544) import("Outline2Black.dxf"); > When I repeated opening my DXF, this time I got: > WARNING: Unsupported DXF Entity 'SPLINE' (fc) in "Outline2Black.dxf". I would guess that they are single lines again? It is best not to work with lines but with filled objects, then you see the body and additionally the line widths have no width by itself (maybe a trap). > -------------------- > > Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have > removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did > before saving your DXF? > I just opened your .svg (what was correct) and saved it as dxf. 😎 repairing all the single line objects to one object I imagine that would be very time-consuming. Wenn Du es nur so machen kannst dann: Tool "edit paths by nodes" (shortcut: F2 or n), find the ends nodes of the lines (select both lines), the select both nodes and connect them by using the tool "Join selected nodes" [image: Bildschirmfoto 2021-06-23 um 13.36.30.png] (looks certainly different at your computer). But this outline so far I see is so simple, I would redraw it. D
D
dpa
Wed, Jun 23, 2021 11:53 AM

Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have

removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did
before saving your DXF?

all the additional points (and seemingly far too many nodes along the
straight) I would just delete. Or easier:
Delete the whole thing, call "Draw Bezier curves" (b) and build a fresh
object by hand with much less points. Try it, it's easy!

> Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have >> removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did >> before saving your DXF? >> > all the additional points (and seemingly far too many nodes along the straight) I would just delete. Or easier: Delete the whole thing, call "Draw Bezier curves" (b) and build a fresh object by hand with much less points. Try it, it's easy!
D
dpa
Wed, Jun 23, 2021 12:22 PM

You can also try:
Select tool "Edit paths by Nodes" (F2)
select the object (the interconnected)
call "Simplify" (or press cmd L)
--> most of the pointless connection points are gone (great), but the
single points (below "the roof") are still there.
With the same "Edit Nodes" tool, select some of the points by drag
selection and delete them. (if you delete too many, call UNDO, zoom in and
select less points and try again).

Am Mi., 23. Juni 2021 um 13:53 Uhr schrieb dpa sc@pankd.de:

Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have

removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did
before saving your DXF?

all the additional points (and seemingly far too many nodes along the
straight) I would just delete. Or easier:
Delete the whole thing, call "Draw Bezier curves" (b) and build a fresh
object by hand with much less points. Try it, it's easy!

You can also try: Select tool "Edit paths by Nodes" (F2) select the object (the interconnected) call "Simplify" (or press cmd L) --> most of the pointless connection points are gone (great), but the single points (below "the roof") are still there. With the same "Edit Nodes" tool, select some of the points by drag selection and delete them. (if you delete too many, call UNDO, zoom in and select less points and try again). Am Mi., 23. Juni 2021 um 13:53 Uhr schrieb dpa <sc@pankd.de>: > > >> Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have >>> removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did >>> before saving your DXF? >>> >> > all the additional points (and seemingly far too many nodes along the > straight) I would just delete. Or easier: > Delete the whole thing, call "Draw Bezier curves" (b) and build a fresh > object by hand with much less points. Try it, it's easy! > >
T
terrypingm@gmail.com
Wed, Jun 23, 2021 7:37 PM

Thanks D, appreciate all your patient help on this. I’m think I’m going to set this DXF issue on the back burner for a while until I get a better grasp of the Inkspace basics.

If I understood you correctly I need to read up on templates. Clearly, after opening say a JPG in Inkscape, its true dimensions are unknown to the program. Are you saying that this definition is done with a ‘template’? And that having done that, the eventual SVG imported into OpenSCAD would reflect that accurately?

Otherwise I’d assumed it would be done by trial/error visually in OpenSCAD.

--
Terry

On 23 Jun 2021, at 12:40, dpa sc@pankd.de wrote:


Hey Terry

I opened your revised DXF in OpenSCAD but the proportions seem correct
to me. (x/y = about 1.75). Do you mean it's displayed at a different
size and screen position?

My revised .dxf contains the same as the .svg at (almost) the same position. But after importing .dxf into OpenSCAD it is smaller than expected. I don't know the reason. With .svg it works correctly.

If so, that's a related aspect I have yet to understand! Specifically,
to get the OpenSCAD scale markers to show the correct (physically
measured) size, is the recommended method to do that in Inkscape (or
maybe QCAD), or in OpenSCAD? And if the latter, what is the best way to
proceed please?

well.. I work in inkscape, did a default template with all set to 'mm', using the bottom left corner as the origin and save normal .svg which I import in OpenSCAD. If you use no- or just one Layer this just works great.
I see one advantage using .dxf: in contrast to .svg you can import layers by adding layer="Layer 1".

But the problem with the size is strange. I found that scale=3.544 brings the dxf to the same size. Does anyone know this number?
this both are (approximately) the same:
linear_extrude(11) import("Outline2Black.svg");
linear_extrude(11) scale(3.544) import("Outline2Black.dxf");

When I repeated opening my DXF, this time I got:
WARNING: Unsupported DXF Entity 'SPLINE' (fc) in "Outline2Black.dxf".

I would guess that they are single lines again? It is best not to work with lines but with filled objects, then you see the body and additionally the line widths have no width by itself (maybe a trap).


Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have
removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did
before saving your DXF?

I just opened your .svg (what was correct) and saved it as dxf. 😎
repairing all the single line objects to one object I imagine that would be very time-consuming. Wenn Du es nur so machen kannst dann: Tool "edit paths by nodes" (shortcut: F2 or n), find the ends nodes of the lines (select both lines), the select both nodes and connect them by using the tool "Join selected nodes"
<Bildschirmfoto 2021-06-23 um 13.36.30.png>
(looks certainly different at your computer). But this outline so far I see is so simple, I would redraw it.

D


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

Thanks D, appreciate all your patient help on this. I’m think I’m going to set this DXF issue on the back burner for a while until I get a better grasp of the Inkspace basics. If I understood you correctly I need to read up on templates. Clearly, after opening say a JPG in Inkscape, its true dimensions are unknown to the program. Are you saying that this definition is done with a ‘template’? And that having done that, the eventual SVG imported into OpenSCAD would reflect that accurately? Otherwise I’d assumed it would be done by trial/error visually in OpenSCAD. -- Terry > On 23 Jun 2021, at 12:40, dpa <sc@pankd.de> wrote: > >  > Hey Terry > >> I opened your revised DXF in OpenSCAD but the proportions seem correct >> to me. (x/y = about 1.75). Do you mean it's displayed at a different >> size and screen position? > > My revised .dxf contains the same as the .svg at (almost) the same position. But after importing .dxf into OpenSCAD it is smaller than expected. I don't know the reason. With .svg it works correctly. > >> If so, that's a related aspect I have yet to understand! Specifically, >> to get the OpenSCAD scale markers to show the correct (physically >> measured) size, is the recommended method to do that in Inkscape (or >> maybe QCAD), or in OpenSCAD? And if the latter, what is the best way to >> proceed please? > > well.. I work in inkscape, did a default template with all set to 'mm', using the bottom left corner as the origin and save normal .svg which I import in OpenSCAD. If you use no- or just one Layer this just works great. > I see one advantage using .dxf: in contrast to .svg you can import layers by adding layer="Layer 1". > > But the problem with the size is strange. I found that scale=3.544 brings the dxf to the same size. Does anyone know this number? > this both are (approximately) the same: > linear_extrude(11) import("Outline2Black.svg"); > linear_extrude(11) scale(3.544) import("Outline2Black.dxf"); > > >> When I repeated opening my DXF, this time I got: >> WARNING: Unsupported DXF Entity 'SPLINE' (fc) in "Outline2Black.dxf". > > I would guess that they are single lines again? It is best not to work with lines but with filled objects, then you see the body and additionally the line widths have no width by itself (maybe a trap). > >> -------------------- >> >> Opening my original DXF in Inkscape again, and zooming in, should I have >> removed those remaining red marks, and if so how? Is that what you did >> before saving your DXF? > > I just opened your .svg (what was correct) and saved it as dxf. 😎 > repairing all the single line objects to one object I imagine that would be very time-consuming. Wenn Du es nur so machen kannst dann: Tool "edit paths by nodes" (shortcut: F2 or n), find the ends nodes of the lines (select both lines), the select both nodes and connect them by using the tool "Join selected nodes" > <Bildschirmfoto 2021-06-23 um 13.36.30.png> > (looks certainly different at your computer). But this outline so far I see is so simple, I would redraw it. > > D > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org
D
dpa
Wed, Jun 23, 2021 9:27 PM

If I understood you correctly I need to read up on templates. Clearly,
after opening say a JPG in Inkscape, its true dimensions are unknown to the
program. Are you saying that this definition is done with a ‘template’?

A template is a document with some preset settings. Like setting everything
to mm (Millimeter).
After you have set https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvMFDcFoRjudaMDa8 it, you
can save it as a template or just use it as a new drawing.
all the numbers you set then are in Millimeter.

And that having done that, the eventual SVG imported into OpenSCAD would

reflect that accurately?

Exactly! if you use filled objects (and not 'strokes') you get exactly what
you set in inkscape also in OpenSCAD (using .svg)

> If I understood you correctly I need to read up on templates. Clearly, > after opening say a JPG in Inkscape, its true dimensions are unknown to the > program. Are you saying that this definition is done with a ‘template’? > A template is a document with some preset settings. Like setting everything to mm (Millimeter). After you have set <https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvMFDcFoRjudaMDa8> it, you can save it as a template or just use it as a new drawing. all the numbers you set then are in Millimeter. And that having done that, the eventual SVG imported into OpenSCAD would > reflect that accurately? > Exactly! if you use filled objects (and not 'strokes') you get exactly what you set in inkscape also in OpenSCAD (using .svg)
T
Terry
Fri, Jun 25, 2021 6:23 PM

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 23:27:32 +0200, you wrote:

If I understood you correctly I need to read up on templates. Clearly,
after opening say a JPG in Inkscape, its true dimensions are unknown to the
program. Are you saying that this definition is done with a ‘template’?

A template is a document with some preset settings. Like setting everything
to mm (Millimeter).
After you have set https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvMFDcFoRjudaMDa8 it, you
can save it as a template or just use it as a new drawing.
all the numbers you set then are in Millimeter.

And that having done that, the eventual SVG imported into OpenSCAD would

reflect that accurately?

Exactly! if you use filled objects (and not 'strokes') you get exactly what
you set in inkscape also in OpenSCAD (using .svg)

====================

D:

Thanks for your patient help on this Inkscape stuff, much appreciate it.

I've been studying it further (and made a default template 220 x 220 mm
to match the bed of my Ender 3 V2) but I remain unclear about the sizing
issues. These two screenshots hopefully explain where I'm at.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bprufb0az57vcks/Resizing-2.jpg?raw=1

I used Trace Bitmap on the orange image.
Then I changed W to 31.0, my best estimate of the x dimension. That made
H = 17.2.
But I don't understand why the box (bounding box?) around my black path
does not match those new settings?

BTW, is there an icon tool or setting somewhere that will automatically
size that box (roughly 120 x 60) to fill most of the window? Or only the
Zoom tool or Ctrl+Mouse middle wheel?

Saved the path as it was displayed in Inkspace and I imported the SVG
into OpenSCAD

I don't recognise the width (X) of ~ 41.2 mm.
It seems to have no relation to the Inkspace numbers or physical
measurement (31.0 mm).

Terry

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 23:27:32 +0200, you wrote: >> If I understood you correctly I need to read up on templates. Clearly, >> after opening say a JPG in Inkscape, its true dimensions are unknown to the >> program. Are you saying that this definition is done with a ‘template’? >> > >A template is a document with some preset settings. Like setting everything >to mm (Millimeter). >After you have set <https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvMFDcFoRjudaMDa8> it, you >can save it as a template or just use it as a new drawing. >all the numbers you set then are in Millimeter. > >And that having done that, the eventual SVG imported into OpenSCAD would >> reflect that accurately? >> > >Exactly! if you use filled objects (and not 'strokes') you get exactly what >you set in inkscape also in OpenSCAD (using .svg) ==================== D: Thanks for your patient help on this Inkscape stuff, much appreciate it. I've been studying it further (and made a default template 220 x 220 mm to match the bed of my Ender 3 V2) but I remain unclear about the sizing issues. These two screenshots hopefully explain where I'm at. https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/bprufb0az57vcks/Resizing-2.jpg?raw=1 I used Trace Bitmap on the orange image. Then I changed W to 31.0, my best estimate of the x dimension. That made H = 17.2. But I don't understand why the box (bounding box?) around my black path does not match those new settings? BTW, is there an icon tool or setting somewhere that will automatically size that box (roughly 120 x 60) to fill most of the window? Or only the Zoom tool or Ctrl+Mouse middle wheel? Saved the path as it was displayed in Inkspace and I imported the SVG into OpenSCAD I don't recognise the width (X) of ~ 41.2 mm. It seems to have no relation to the Inkspace numbers or physical measurement (31.0 mm). Terry
L
larry
Fri, Jun 25, 2021 7:21 PM

On Fri, 2021-06-25 at 19:23 +0100, Terry wrote:

I've been studying it further (and made a default template 220 x 220
mm to match the bed of my Ender 3 V2) but I remain unclear about the
sizing issues. These two screenshots hopefully explain where I'm at.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bprufb0az57vcks/Resizing-2.jpg?raw=1

I used Trace Bitmap on the orange image.
Then I changed W to 31.0, my best estimate of the x dimension. That
made H = 17.2. But I don't understand why the box (bounding box?)
around my black path does not match those new settings?

I don't know, but I find it interesting that the bounding box (well,
the selection box) is approximately the size of the values in the
'Custom Size' box on the right side, which is about 117x64 pixels.
As well, the 'Display Units' Under 'Page>General' (upper right), show
the page units to be pixels.

I would be willing to bet that if you changed the units to be mm, it
would show the actual dimensions.

BTW, is there an icon tool or setting somewhere that will
automatically size that box (roughly 120 x 60) to fill most of the
window? Or only the Zoom tool or Ctrl+Mouse middle wheel?

Yes, Just above the x: 0000, there are three icons. Hovering over them
will yield the meanings:
Zoom to Selection, Zoom to Drawing, Zoom to Page

I don't recognise the width (X) of ~ 41.2 mm.
It seems to have no relation to the Inkspace numbers or physical
measurement (31.0 mm).

Nothing DXF does to a drawing surprises me any more. I would save it in
.svg format.

On Fri, 2021-06-25 at 19:23 +0100, Terry wrote: > > I've been studying it further (and made a default template 220 x 220 > mm to match the bed of my Ender 3 V2) but I remain unclear about the > sizing issues. These two screenshots hopefully explain where I'm at. > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1 > https://www.dropbox.com/s/bprufb0az57vcks/Resizing-2.jpg?raw=1 > > I used Trace Bitmap on the orange image. > Then I changed W to 31.0, my best estimate of the x dimension. That > made H = 17.2. But I don't understand why the box (bounding box?) > around my black path does not match those new settings? I don't know, but I find it interesting that the bounding box (well, the selection box) is approximately the size of the values in the 'Custom Size' box on the right side, which is about 117x64 pixels. As well, the 'Display Units' Under 'Page>General' (upper right), show the page units to be pixels. I would be willing to bet that if you changed the units to be mm, it would show the actual dimensions. > BTW, is there an icon tool or setting somewhere that will > automatically size that box (roughly 120 x 60) to fill most of the > window? Or only the Zoom tool or Ctrl+Mouse middle wheel? Yes, Just above the x: 0000, there are three icons. Hovering over them will yield the meanings: Zoom to Selection, Zoom to Drawing, Zoom to Page > I don't recognise the width (X) of ~ 41.2 mm. > It seems to have no relation to the Inkspace numbers or physical > measurement (31.0 mm). Nothing DXF does to a drawing surprises me any more. I would save it in .svg format.
T
terrypingm@gmail.com
Fri, Jun 25, 2021 7:42 PM

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:21:29 -0600, you wrote:

On Fri, 2021-06-25 at 19:23 +0100, Terry wrote:

I've been studying it further (and made a default template 220 x 220
mm to match the bed of my Ender 3 V2) but I remain unclear about the
sizing issues. These two screenshots hopefully explain where I'm at.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bprufb0az57vcks/Resizing-2.jpg?raw=1

I used Trace Bitmap on the orange image.
Then I changed W to 31.0, my best estimate of the x dimension. That
made H = 17.2. But I don't understand why the box (bounding box?)
around my black path does not match those new settings?

I don't know, but I find it interesting that the bounding box (well,
the selection box) is approximately the size of the values in the
'Custom Size' box on the right side, which is about 117x64 pixels.
As well, the 'Display Units' Under 'Page>General' (upper right), show
the page units to be pixels.

I would be willing to bet that if you changed the units to be mm, it
would show the actual dimensions.

BTW, is there an icon tool or setting somewhere that will
automatically size that box (roughly 120 x 60) to fill most of the
window? Or only the Zoom tool or Ctrl+Mouse middle wheel?

Yes, Just above the x: 0000, there are three icons. Hovering over them
will yield the meanings:
Zoom to Selection, Zoom to Drawing, Zoom to Page

I don't recognise the width (X) of ~ 41.2 mm.
It seems to have no relation to the Inkspace numbers or physical
measurement (31.0 mm).

Nothing DXF does to a drawing surprises me any more. I would save it in
.svg format.


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

Thanks Larry.

Strange, I see your reply - but I still haven't seen my post (sent at
19:23 this evening).

I am using SVG, not DXF.

You're right, the numbers in Doc properties > Custom Size do change to
31 & 17. (I hadn't noticed that was still set at px.) But the axes
haven't changed and the box is still about 60 x 40.

I cannot find the three icons you describe. Could you indicate their
location using my earlier screenshot please. I've attached it this time
as an image as well as the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1

Terry

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:21:29 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 2021-06-25 at 19:23 +0100, Terry wrote: >> >> I've been studying it further (and made a default template 220 x 220 >> mm to match the bed of my Ender 3 V2) but I remain unclear about the >> sizing issues. These two screenshots hopefully explain where I'm at. >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1 >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bprufb0az57vcks/Resizing-2.jpg?raw=1 >> >> I used Trace Bitmap on the orange image. >> Then I changed W to 31.0, my best estimate of the x dimension. That >> made H = 17.2. But I don't understand why the box (bounding box?) >> around my black path does not match those new settings? > >I don't know, but I find it interesting that the bounding box (well, >the selection box) is approximately the size of the values in the >'Custom Size' box on the right side, which is about 117x64 pixels. >As well, the 'Display Units' Under 'Page>General' (upper right), show >the page units to be pixels. > >I would be willing to bet that if you changed the units to be mm, it >would show the actual dimensions. > >> BTW, is there an icon tool or setting somewhere that will >> automatically size that box (roughly 120 x 60) to fill most of the >> window? Or only the Zoom tool or Ctrl+Mouse middle wheel? > >Yes, Just above the x: 0000, there are three icons. Hovering over them >will yield the meanings: >Zoom to Selection, Zoom to Drawing, Zoom to Page > >> I don't recognise the width (X) of ~ 41.2 mm. >> It seems to have no relation to the Inkspace numbers or physical >> measurement (31.0 mm). > >Nothing DXF does to a drawing surprises me any more. I would save it in >.svg format. > >_______________________________________________ >OpenSCAD mailing list >To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org Thanks Larry. Strange, I see your reply - but I still haven't seen my post (sent at 19:23 this evening). I am using SVG, not DXF. You're right, the numbers in Doc properties > Custom Size do change to 31 & 17. (I hadn't noticed that was still set at px.) But the axes haven't changed and the box is still about 60 x 40. I cannot find the three icons you describe. Could you indicate their location using my earlier screenshot please. I've attached it this time as an image as well as the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpbf5zdnf6b7vzt/Resizing-1.jpg?raw=1 Terry