Hi Michael, I don't think I lurked for too long, but folk are different. However, I have found, in the number of Fora I have moderated/otherwise partook, that folk tend to move on, for example, and forget to unsubscribe, 'just in case' they miss out on something, or usually genuine forgetfulness. I thought it is meant to be a discussion group, but there are those who just take, and not give. Various folk have helped me in my endeavours, so I generally try and pass that forward, help others, in the hope they can do the same. I have little time for those who just take, without giving anything back - it is sort of akin to sneaking in to the back of the cinema, or shoplifting, which today seems to be acceptable in some societies. You seemed to imply that sending off topic emails to 876 members was not a good thing, but I would suggest that sending 876 emails of on-topic stuff, to maybe 700 or so uninterested members is also not a good thing.  As it is a mailing list, users can readily filter what they want on sender's name, topic/whatever, so it should not be a problem at the receiving end. If it is a problem at the sending end, then reduce the idle membership numbers. Openscad is a tool, it is only part of the process in creating whatever it is that is being created. I don't think the discussion should be solely restricted to openscad, since although that may satisfy some academic situation, it will not necessarily interface nicely with the real world. For example, the handling of dxf files - you can export and import OK, but often only within openscad. You can't always  import dxf's created outside of openscad. Can we not discuss problems with dxf files? dxf and stl are not needed within openscad, but are there for interfacing to other systems, so discussion should be able to spill over into these outside areas. If that does not happen, then the interface problems will never diminish, and openscad will remain as an experimental, quirky way of producing drawings of 2D/3D objects, with no practical application.. Season's Greetings to you, and to everyone else too. I may or may not post some images of a few of my recent openscad random physical creations, which may or may not be appreciated. Best wishes, Ray On 24/12/2021 11:09, MichaelAtOz wrote: > [This is a direct email - not on the Mailing-list] > > I'm not good at reading subtlety in emails. > > If you are suggesting I was a bit hard on an 80+ year old at Xmas, you are not aware of the private warnings he has received to keep on topic. > > If you are actually against lurkers, you may want to reflect on your early days, I don't know about you, but I lurked on the Forum for a long time, until I felt comfortable enough with my knowledge to actually comment in public. > > Lurkers in Open Source application are the foundation of growth. > > If you have some other meaning I haven't groked, feel free to elucidate. > > If not, have a great Xmas if that is your thing. > > > Regards, > Michael > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Raymond West [mailto:raywest@raywest.com] >> Sent: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 21:28 >> To: discuss@lists.openscad.org >> Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: stringing problem & related >> >> >> On 23/12/2021 23:25, MichaelAtOz wrote: >>> We have over 870 members who, no offence, mostly are not interested in your printers >> deficiencies >> we have over 876 members, but only about 50 contribute anything to the >> mailing list. In the spirit of the season, maybe time to kick out the >> lurkers. >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >

As someone who has been on the receiving end of Michael's "constructive criticism" for some comments about OpenSCAD as a programming language, I have come to a conclusion that someone needs to have some authority to keep the group "on task". Generally it is everybody's responsibility, and most of the time this works. However everyone has only so much bandwidth that their brains can focus on productively, and there is a reason why there are so many forums for different topics. The right forum minimises the noise. Just subscribe to what you can find that targets as closely as possible to what you need. Don't subscribe to a forum, then use the goodwill of the members to attend to your every need, no matter how off topic the discussion drifts. I enjoy reading the OpenSCAD forum (though I contribute little) because it reminds me that what I use for fairly trivial projects, is only made possible by a group of highly focussed individuals who push the capabilities of the language forwards. There are also newbies who need to be catered for who need help with OpenSCAD. These people are still on task with OpenSCAD and generate interesting topics I find at my level. However if this forum becomes sidetracked with off topic contributions eg "tuning my 3-D printer" threads then we will see the people who develop OpenSCAD just burn out and give up. That will help none of us in the long run. I support Michael. Cheers, RobW On 24 December 2021 11:29:25 pm AEDT, Raymond West <raywest@raywest.com> wrote: >Hi Michael, > >I don't think I lurked for too long, but folk are different. However, I >have found, in the number of Fora I have moderated/otherwise partook, >that folk tend to move on, for example, and forget to unsubscribe, 'just >in case' they miss out on something, or usually genuine forgetfulness. I >thought it is meant to be a discussion group, but there are those who >just take, and not give. Various folk have helped me in my endeavours, >so I generally try and pass that forward, help others, in the hope they >can do the same. I have little time for those who just take, without >giving anything back - it is sort of akin to sneaking in to the back of >the cinema, or shoplifting, which today seems to be acceptable in some >societies. > >You seemed to imply that sending off topic emails to 876 members was not >a good thing, but I would suggest that sending 876 emails of on-topic >stuff, to maybe 700 or so uninterested members is also not a good >thing.  As it is a mailing list, users can readily filter what they want >on sender's name, topic/whatever, so it should not be a problem at the >receiving end. If it is a problem at the sending end, then reduce the >idle membership numbers. > >Openscad is a tool, it is only part of the process in creating whatever >it is that is being created. I don't think the discussion should be >solely restricted to openscad, since although that may satisfy some >academic situation, it will not necessarily interface nicely with the >real world. For example, the handling of dxf files - you can export and >import OK, but often only within openscad. You can't always  import >dxf's created outside of openscad. Can we not discuss problems with dxf >files? dxf and stl are not needed within openscad, but are there for >interfacing to other systems, so discussion should be able to spill over >into these outside areas. If that does not happen, then the interface >problems will never diminish, and openscad will remain as an >experimental, quirky way of producing drawings of 2D/3D objects, with no >practical application.. > >Season's Greetings to you, and to everyone else too. > >I may or may not post some images of a few of my recent openscad random >physical creations, which may or may not be appreciated. > >Best wishes, > >Ray > > >On 24/12/2021 11:09, MichaelAtOz wrote: >> [This is a direct email - not on the Mailing-list] >> >> I'm not good at reading subtlety in emails. >> >> If you are suggesting I was a bit hard on an 80+ year old at Xmas, you are not aware of the private warnings he has received to keep on topic. >> >> If you are actually against lurkers, you may want to reflect on your early days, I don't know about you, but I lurked on the Forum for a long time, until I felt comfortable enough with my knowledge to actually comment in public. >> >> Lurkers in Open Source application are the foundation of growth. >> >> If you have some other meaning I haven't groked, feel free to elucidate. >> >> If not, have a great Xmas if that is your thing. >> >> >> Regards, >> Michael >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Raymond West [mailto:raywest@raywest.com] >>> Sent: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 21:28 >>> To: discuss@lists.openscad.org >>> Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: stringing problem & related >>> >>> >>> On 23/12/2021 23:25, MichaelAtOz wrote: >>>> We have over 870 members who, no offence, mostly are not interested in your printers >>> deficiencies >>> we have over 876 members, but only about 50 contribute anything to the >>> mailing list. In the spirit of the season, maybe time to kick out the >>> lurkers. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> >_______________________________________________ >OpenSCAD mailing list >To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

It has been pointed out to me that he message from Michael was a private message to me. I was unaware of that (although the first line indicates that that is the case) I apologise if that oversight of mine has caused some concern.