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Surface extraction

NH
nop head
Sat, Mar 4, 2023 7:27 PM

You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object
but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or
plaster mould around it.

PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer steve@jetcafe.org wrote:

You could use this as the start of a lost wax process.

Steve Schlaifer
On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote:

Guenther

I am not planning to do anything with this.

I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach.

In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something like
this. But lot of learning from this challenging work.

On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, guenther.sohler@gmail.com
wrote:

it looks very nice!
Whats your workflow like?
apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote:

bottom mould completely done in openscad.

<Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png>


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You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or plaster mould around it. PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax. On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer <steve@jetcafe.org> wrote: > You could use this as the start of a lost wax process. > > Steve Schlaifer > On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar < > sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote: > > Guenther > > I am not planning to do anything with this. > > I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach. > > In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something like > this. But lot of learning from this challenging work. > > > On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, <guenther.sohler@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> it looks very nice! >> Whats your workflow like? >> apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar < >> sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> bottom mould completely done in openscad. >>> >>> <Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
SP
Sanjeev Prabhakar
Sun, Mar 5, 2023 8:29 AM

That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project.

On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, nop.head@gmail.com wrote:

You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object
but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or
plaster mould around it.

PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer steve@jetcafe.org wrote:

You could use this as the start of a lost wax process.

Steve Schlaifer
On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote:

Guenther

I am not planning to do anything with this.

I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach.

In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something like
this. But lot of learning from this challenging work.

On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, guenther.sohler@gmail.com
wrote:

it looks very nice!
Whats your workflow like?
apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote:

bottom mould completely done in openscad.

<Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png>


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That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project. On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com> wrote: > You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object > but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or > plaster mould around it. > > PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax. > > On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer <steve@jetcafe.org> wrote: > >> You could use this as the start of a lost wax process. >> >> Steve Schlaifer >> On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar < >> sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote: >> >> Guenther >> >> I am not planning to do anything with this. >> >> I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach. >> >> In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something like >> this. But lot of learning from this challenging work. >> >> >> On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, <guenther.sohler@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> it looks very nice! >>> Whats your workflow like? >>> apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar < >>> sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> bottom mould completely done in openscad. >>>> >>>> <Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
NH
nop head
Sun, Mar 5, 2023 8:49 AM

My father was a pattern maker, long before 3D printing was a thing. He made
the patterns out of wood manually and had a set of rulers that were out by
the contraction ratios of different metals, which I still have.

On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 at 08:30, Sanjeev Prabhakar sprabhakar2006@gmail.com
wrote:

That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project.

On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, nop.head@gmail.com wrote:

You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object
but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or
plaster mould around it.

PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer steve@jetcafe.org wrote:

You could use this as the start of a lost wax process.

Steve Schlaifer
On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote:

Guenther

I am not planning to do anything with this.

I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach.

In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something like
this. But lot of learning from this challenging work.

On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, guenther.sohler@gmail.com
wrote:

it looks very nice!
Whats your workflow like?
apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote:

bottom mould completely done in openscad.

<Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png>


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My father was a pattern maker, long before 3D printing was a thing. He made the patterns out of wood manually and had a set of rulers that were out by the contraction ratios of different metals, which I still have. On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 at 08:30, Sanjeev Prabhakar <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote: > That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project. > > > > On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com> wrote: > >> You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object >> but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or >> plaster mould around it. >> >> PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax. >> >> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer <steve@jetcafe.org> wrote: >> >>> You could use this as the start of a lost wax process. >>> >>> Steve Schlaifer >>> On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar < >>> sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote: >>> >>> Guenther >>> >>> I am not planning to do anything with this. >>> >>> I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach. >>> >>> In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something like >>> this. But lot of learning from this challenging work. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, <guenther.sohler@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> it looks very nice! >>>> Whats your workflow like? >>>> apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar < >>>> sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> bottom mould completely done in openscad. >>>>> >>>>> <Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
SP
Sanjeev Prabhakar
Sun, Mar 5, 2023 12:37 PM

Wow

Great to hear that

I have almost no experience of sand moulding, but we have made hundreds of
die casting moulds if not thousands.

In Engineering we have designers who mainly work on expensive softwares
like nx , Catia, creo, autocad etc.

It's very easy to make mould designs in these softwares, although I don't
work on that.

Many times I show our designers that openscad could be an alternative for
some type of designs.

But it seems they don't take me seriously and it's fine.

I like openscad although till date almost no professional work is done by
me on this, but I intend to make few functions which could be useful for
professional use.

On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 2:20 pm nop head, nop.head@gmail.com wrote:

My father was a pattern maker, long before 3D printing was a thing. He
made the patterns out of wood manually and had a set of rulers that were
out by the contraction ratios of different metals, which I still have.

On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 at 08:30, Sanjeev Prabhakar sprabhakar2006@gmail.com
wrote:

That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project.

On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, nop.head@gmail.com wrote:

You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object
but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or
plaster mould around it.

PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer steve@jetcafe.org wrote:

You could use this as the start of a lost wax process.

Steve Schlaifer
On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote:

Guenther

I am not planning to do anything with this.

I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach.

In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something
like this. But lot of learning from this challenging work.

On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, <
guenther.sohler@gmail.com> wrote:

it looks very nice!
Whats your workflow like?
apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar <
sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote:

bottom mould completely done in openscad.

<Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png>


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Wow Great to hear that I have almost no experience of sand moulding, but we have made hundreds of die casting moulds if not thousands. In Engineering we have designers who mainly work on expensive softwares like nx , Catia, creo, autocad etc. It's very easy to make mould designs in these softwares, although I don't work on that. Many times I show our designers that openscad could be an alternative for some type of designs. But it seems they don't take me seriously and it's fine. I like openscad although till date almost no professional work is done by me on this, but I intend to make few functions which could be useful for professional use. On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 2:20 pm nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com> wrote: > My father was a pattern maker, long before 3D printing was a thing. He > made the patterns out of wood manually and had a set of rulers that were > out by the contraction ratios of different metals, which I still have. > > On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 at 08:30, Sanjeev Prabhakar <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project. >> >> >> >> On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the desired final object >>> but expanded by the amount the metal contracts and then build a sand or >>> plaster mould around it. >>> >>> PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax. >>> >>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer <steve@jetcafe.org> wrote: >>> >>>> You could use this as the start of a lost wax process. >>>> >>>> Steve Schlaifer >>>> On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar < >>>> sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>, wrote: >>>> >>>> Guenther >>>> >>>> I am not planning to do anything with this. >>>> >>>> I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this approach. >>>> >>>> In the process I found it is very complex right now to do something >>>> like this. But lot of learning from this challenging work. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, < >>>> guenther.sohler@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> it looks very nice! >>>>> Whats your workflow like? >>>>> apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the plastic >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar < >>>>> sprabhakar2006@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> bottom mould completely done in openscad. >>>>>> >>>>>> <Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
AG
andrew goh
Tue, Mar 7, 2023 7:31 PM

I've been thinking about 3d printing molds, say for polyurethane foam
casting.

I never quite put in the effort to do it.

I'm a novice in this.

I'd seem making 3d printed molds may be difficult as it is after all
rather soft materials, and that the expanding foam may expand so much
the mold could deform.
And that it requires a mold release, which i'd guess things that could
be tried could include shoe polish, baby powder, silicone oil (spray)
etc, silicone spray is actually used in metal molds i'd guess.

that is actually the lesser of problems, but that i'm not sure how toxic
is the polyurethane materials after all MDI etc if it would necessitate
using a proper VOC respirator etc, quite expensive but may after all be
necessary. expanding foams are quite easy to buy say from construction
products businesses, e.g. for foam insulation etc.
no need for the speciality types, just that handling the chemicals I'd
guess would need quite some precautions, VOC respirator etc.

On 05/03/2023 20:37, Sanjeev Prabhakar wrote:

Wow

Great to hear that

I have almost no experience of sand moulding, but we have made
hundreds of die casting moulds if not thousands.

In Engineering we have designers who mainly work on expensive
softwares like nx , Catia, creo, autocad etc.

It's very easy to make mould designs in these softwares, although I
don't work on that.

Many times I show our designers that openscad could be an alternative
for some type of designs.

But it seems they don't take me seriously and it's fine.

I like openscad although till date almost no professional work is done
by me on this, but I intend to make few functions which could be
useful for professional use.

On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 2:20 pm nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com
mailto:nop.head@gmail.com> wrote:

 My father was a pattern maker, long before 3D printing was a
 thing. He made the patterns out of wood manually and had a set of
 rulers that were out by the contraction ratios of different
 metals, which I still have.

 On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 at 08:30, Sanjeev Prabhakar
 <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com <mailto:sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>> wrote:

     That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project.



     On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com
     <mailto:nop.head@gmail.com>> wrote:

         You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the
         desired final object but expanded by the amount the metal
         contracts and then build a sand or plaster mould around it.

         PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax.

         On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer
         <steve@jetcafe.org <mailto:steve@jetcafe.org>> wrote:

             You could use this as the start of a lost wax process.

             Steve Schlaifer
             On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar
             <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com
             <mailto:sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>>, wrote:
             Guenther

             I am not planning to do anything with this.

             I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this
             approach.

             In the process I found it is very complex right now
             to do something like this. But lot of learning from
             this challenging work.


             On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler,
             <guenther.sohler@gmail.com
             <mailto:guenther.sohler@gmail.com>> wrote:

                 it looks very nice!
                 Whats your workflow like?
                 apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the
                 plastic


                 On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar
                 <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com
                 <mailto:sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>> wrote:

                     bottom mould completely done in openscad.

                     <Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png>

                     _______________________________________________
                     OpenSCAD mailing list
                     To unsubscribe send an email to
                     discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org
                     <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org>

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I've been thinking about 3d printing molds, say for polyurethane foam casting. I never quite put in the effort to do it. I'm a novice in this. I'd seem making 3d printed molds may be difficult as it is after all rather soft materials, and that the expanding foam may expand so much the mold could deform. And that it requires a mold release, which i'd guess things that could be tried could include shoe polish, baby powder, silicone oil (spray) etc, silicone spray is actually used in metal molds i'd guess. that is actually the lesser of problems, but that i'm not sure how toxic is the polyurethane materials after all MDI etc if it would necessitate using a proper VOC respirator etc, quite expensive but may after all be necessary. expanding foams are quite easy to buy say from construction products businesses, e.g. for foam insulation etc. no need for the speciality types, just that handling the chemicals I'd guess would need quite some precautions, VOC respirator etc. On 05/03/2023 20:37, Sanjeev Prabhakar wrote: > Wow > > Great to hear that > > I have almost no experience of sand moulding, but we have made > hundreds of die casting moulds if not thousands. > > In Engineering we have designers who mainly work on expensive > softwares like nx , Catia, creo, autocad etc. > > It's very easy to make mould designs in these softwares, although I > don't work on that. > > Many times I show our designers that openscad could be an alternative > for some type of designs. > > But it seems they don't take me seriously and it's fine. > > I like openscad although till date almost no professional work is done > by me on this, but I intend to make few functions which could be > useful for professional use. > > > On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 2:20 pm nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com > <mailto:nop.head@gmail.com>> wrote: > > My father was a pattern maker, long before 3D printing was a > thing. He made the patterns out of wood manually and had a set of > rulers that were out by the contraction ratios of different > metals, which I still have. > > On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 at 08:30, Sanjeev Prabhakar > <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com <mailto:sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>> wrote: > > That's a good idea, will give it a try in our next project. > > > > On Sun, 5 Mar, 2023, 12:59 am nop head, <nop.head@gmail.com > <mailto:nop.head@gmail.com>> wrote: > > You can print a PLA pattern that is the same as the > desired final object but expanded by the amount the metal > contracts and then build a sand or plaster mould around it. > > PLA can be burned out just as easily as wax. > > On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 at 19:24, Steve Schlaifer > <steve@jetcafe.org <mailto:steve@jetcafe.org>> wrote: > > You could use this as the start of a lost wax process. > > Steve Schlaifer > On Mar 3, 2023 at 4:07 AM -0800, Sanjeev Prabhakar > <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com > <mailto:sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>>, wrote: >> Guenther >> >> I am not planning to do anything with this. >> >> I was just checking if dies can be modelled with this >> approach. >> >> In the process I found it is very complex right now >> to do something like this. But lot of learning from >> this challenging work. >> >> >> On Fri, 3 Mar, 2023, 3:38 pm Guenther Sohler, >> <guenther.sohler@gmail.com >> <mailto:guenther.sohler@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> it looks very nice! >> Whats your workflow like? >> apparently you cannot pour molten metal onto the >> plastic >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 6:45 PM Sanjeev Prabhakar >> <sprabhakar2006@gmail.com >> <mailto:sprabhakar2006@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> bottom mould completely done in openscad. >> >> <Screenshot 2023-03-02 at 11.10.21 PM.png> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >> <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to > discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org > <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to > discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org > <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to > discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org > <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org > <mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org