Does OpenSCAD deserve a modern Forum platform?
Upon checking the "OpenSCAD" keyword in Google Trends I´ve observed a
sustained decay over the last few years.
http://forum.openscad.org/file/t3088/Interest_Trends_in_OpenSCAD.png
I´m not an expert, but in my modest opinion a new modern Forum platform
would contribute to revitalize the OpenSCAD impact on the community. What
do you think?
For example, *Discourse *(https://www.discourse.org) is completely free to
self-host and you can find the project on GitHub as well
(https://github.com/discourse/discourse). This very easy to use tool is the
one used by the McNeel community (Rhino, GrassHopper, etc...). It is very
intuitive and works seamlessly.
Despite Discourse is my favorite, there are many other free and modern
options. You can check some of them here:
https://itsfoss.com/open-source-forum-software/
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
This was discussed at length in December.
http://forum.openscad.org/Moving-the-forum-to-something-more-modern-td30919.html
About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum. If you use a good enough email client, and configure it correctly, then an email client is just as a good as a forum web site for following conversations, replying and posting. The added benefit is that you have a single integrated interface for multiple different mailing lists/forums.
Not everybody wants to invest in using and configuring an email client to work this way, but those of us who do don't want to lose the ability to interact with the openscad community using email. So, any modern forum platform we move to should have high quality mailing list integration.
Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong. Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration with Discourse is not possible.
Finding an acceptable replacement for the current forum software is an open issue.
- IMO Google Groups works, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in using it.
- Zulip was mentioned in the previous discussion. It is a well known modern forum with the correct data model, but although it has "email integration", it doesn't seem to have high quality mailing list integration. There is an open issue for Zulip-Mailman integration: https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/959
- HyperKitty seems to meet our requirements (eg, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/). It is a "modern forum" web user interface for mailman. It is GPL free software from the FSF and Fedora uses it. I just found it while composing this message, and I don't have experience using it.
Doug Moen.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Vigardo wrote:
Upon checking the "OpenSCAD" keyword in Google Trends I´ve observed a
sustained decay over the last few years.
http://forum.openscad.org/file/t3088/Interest_Trends_in_OpenSCAD.png
I´m not an expert, but in my modest opinion a new modern Forum platform
would contribute to revitalize the OpenSCAD impact on the community. What
do you think?
For example, *Discourse *(https://www.discourse.org) is completely free to
self-host and you can find the project on GitHub as well
(https://github.com/discourse/discourse). This very easy to use tool is the
one used by the McNeel community (Rhino, GrassHopper, etc...). It is very
intuitive and works seamlessly.
Despite Discourse is my favorite, there are many other free and modern
options. You can check some of them here:
https://itsfoss.com/open-source-forum-software/
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Finding an acceptable replacement for the current forum software is an
open issue.
Maybe not HyperKitty. It is plain text only: no rich text, markdown, or embedded images.
https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/225
I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well
On Fri, 22 Jan 2021, 15:33 Doug Moen, doug@moens.org wrote:
Finding an acceptable replacement for the current forum software is an
open issue.
Maybe not HyperKitty. It is plain text only: no rich text, markdown, or
embedded images.
https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues/225
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.
doug.moen
"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."
I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users. This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?
"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."
If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.
acwest
"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"
This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY people.
I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic
tp3 and MichaelAtOz say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...
Furthermore, I totally agree with xgarb. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:
"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:
- Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
- Sign up to Mail list
- Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
Go to bed - Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message, 11)
Work, 12) Get more emails - Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
the images
Discourse would be: - Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
(including pasting screen captures directly)"
From the point of view of a potential OpenSCAD new user (which are necessary
to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately, upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).
Thanks again and sorry for the long post!
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
I know I would be gone if the mailing list wasn't good enough. Forums
require you to choose to go to the forum, choose a top to read, etc. A
miasling list, you just read messages as they come in. I have way too many
things I am following to put that much attention into any one thing
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:21 PM Vigardo bioramon@gmail.com wrote:
First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.
doug.moen
"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."
I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate
that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users.
This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?
"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."
If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.
acwest
"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"
This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply
here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY
people.
I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic
tp3 and MichaelAtOz say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...
Furthermore, I totally agree with xgarb. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:
"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:
- Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
- Sign up to Mail list
- Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
Go to bed - Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message,
Work, 12) Get more emails
13) Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
the images
Discourse would be:
- Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
(including pasting screen captures directly)"
From the point of view of a potential OpenSCAD new user (which are
necessary
to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that
this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately, upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).
Thanks again and sorry for the long post!
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Please retain the mail list format, it requires the least effort to
interact with.
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 07:21 Vigardo bioramon@gmail.com wrote:
First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.
doug.moen
"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."
I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate
that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users.
This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?
"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."
If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.
acwest
"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"
This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply
here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY
people.
I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic
tp3 and MichaelAtOz say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...
Furthermore, I totally agree with xgarb. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:
"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:
- Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
- Sign up to Mail list
- Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
Go to bed - Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message,
Work, 12) Get more emails
13) Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
the images
Discourse would be:
- Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
(including pasting screen captures directly)"
From the point of view of a potential OpenSCAD new user (which are
necessary
to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that
this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately, upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).
Thanks again and sorry for the long post!
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
I follow mail lists because precisely because it is low effort.
Move this to a forum and I won't follow it.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:31 PM A. Craig West acraigwest@gmail.com wrote:
I know I would be gone if the mailing list wasn't good enough. Forums
require you to choose to go to the forum, choose a top to read, etc. A
miasling list, you just read messages as they come in. I have way too many
things I am following to put that much attention into any one thing
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:21 PM Vigardo bioramon@gmail.com wrote:
First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.
doug.moen
"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."
I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate
that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users.
This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?
"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to
be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."
If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.
acwest
"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"
This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply
here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY
people.
I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic
tp3 and MichaelAtOz say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...
Furthermore, I totally agree with xgarb. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I
experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:
"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:
- Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
- Sign up to Mail list
- Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
Go to bed - Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message,
Work, 12) Get more emails
13) Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
the images
Discourse would be:
- Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
(including pasting screen captures directly)"
From the point of view of a potential OpenSCAD new user (which are
necessary
to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that
this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately,
upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).
Thanks again and sorry for the long post!
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
I feel much the same, a mailing list is much easier to manage from my point of view.
Dave
On 22/01/2021 23:36, Rick wrote:
I follow mail lists because precisely because it is low effort.
Move this to a forum and I won't follow it.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:31 PM A. Craig West <acraigwest@gmail.com> wrote:
I know I would be gone if the mailing list wasn't good enough. Forums require you to choose to go to the forum, choose a top to read, etc. A miasling list, you just read messages as they come in. I have way too many things I am following to put that much attention into any one thing
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:21 PM Vigardo <bioramon@gmail.com> wrote:
First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.*doug.moen*
"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."
I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users. This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.*acwest*
"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY people.I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic*tp3* and *MichaelAtOz* say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...Furthermore, I totally agree with *xgarb*. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:
- Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
- Sign up to Mail list
- Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
Go to bed- Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message, 11)
Work, 12) Get more emails- Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
the images
Discourse would be:- Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
(including pasting screen captures directly)">From the point of view of a potential OpenSCAD new user (which are necessary
to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately, upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).Thanks again and sorry for the long post!
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Discuss@lists.openscad.org">Discuss@lists.openscad.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org">http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org</a>
I’m on mailing lists since... 1986. They work.
Various web forums get in my way and most often go obsolete.
/mikael
Sent from a mobile device.
On 22 Jan 2021, at 23:54, softfoot@hotmail.com wrote:
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from outside of the University of Limerick. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the content is safe.
I feel much the same, a mailing list is much easier to manage from my point of view.
Dave
On 22/01/2021 23:36, Rick wrote:
I follow mail lists because precisely because it is low effort.
Move this to a forum and I won't follow it.
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:31 PM A. Craig West <acraigwest@gmail.commailto:acraigwest@gmail.com> wrote:
I know I would be gone if the mailing list wasn't good enough. Forums require you to choose to go to the forum, choose a top to read, etc. A miasling list, you just read messages as they come in. I have way too many things I am following to put that much attention into any one thing
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:21 PM Vigardo <bioramon@gmail.commailto:bioramon@gmail.com> wrote:
First of all, thanks for discussing this topic with me again :-). I´ve
checked the link to December´s thread that doug.moen pointed out and found
it very interesting. Please, let me comment here your contributions.
doug.moen
"About 2/3 of the participants use the mailing list, not the forum."
I´m sorry, but I disagree. I think this fact is does not fully validate that
the current Forum manager is the preferred option for 2/3 of the users. This
simply says that 2/3 of the users prefer one of the two alternatives for
such current (old) manager software. Perhaps if they tested a newer
alternative would change their preferences, don´t you think?
"Discourse can't meet this requirement, because the data model is wrong.
Every forum post needs to have a subject line, and conversations need to be
threaded based on the subject line. High quality mailing list integration
with Discourse is not possible."
If I understood you well, I would not say that the data model is wrong. In
all Forums I´ve used you need a subject topic and the replies must follow
that subject. I really do not understand why a mailing list is necessary.
Almost any modern Forum software also should provide digests to be aware
about what topics are trendy, and also can send you emails about new
messages in the threads you´ve participated.
acwest
"I have been on mailing lists that were entirely killed by migration to
forums that didn't support the mailing list format well"
This may be a good reason, but I don´t know why this should also apply here.
Past events do not guarantee future events. :-) I think that OpenSCAD is a
good free tool that is very attractive for makers, engineers and DIY people.
I want to remark here some extracts that best reflect my opinion from the
December thread about this topic
tp3 and MichaelAtOz say that "Nabble might be dying any time. This was
announced some time ago, but did luckily not happen yet.". The former also
evidences that Discourse would be a good alternative...
Furthermore, I totally agree with xgarb. He exposed what I think is
another key motivation to change Forum manager software since I experienced
exactly the same frustration upon subscribing myself to this mailing list:
"My experience of joining this forum went something like this:
- Read notice about joining three times, 2) Sign up to forum, 3) Confirm,
- Sign up to Mail list
- Confirm, 6) Read notice about joining again, 7) Send manual request, 8)
Go to bed - Wake up to 10 emails I'm not interested in, 10) See accepted message, 11)
Work, 12) Get more emails - Write my question, 14) See my question showing but with just urls for
the images
Discourse would be: - Create account or use social login, 2) Confirm, 3) Write question
(including pasting screen captures directly)"
From the point of view of a potential OpenSCAD new user (which are necessary
to maintain a good health community), such an old Forum manager would make
him/her consider whether to join or not to join this forum since it gives
the impression that it may be discontinued very soon... I´m afraid that this
was exactly what I thought a few weeks ago when I joined. Fortunately, upon
a couple of posts I´ve realized that I was quite wrong and that this
community is very active and responsive (thanks all!).
Thanks again and sorry for the long post!
--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.orgmailto:Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
OpenSCAD mailing list
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http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
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EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from outside of the University of Limerick. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the content is safe.
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