discuss@lists.openscad.org

OpenSCAD general discussion Mailing-list

View all threads

What other software uses CSG

LB
L Boyd
Tue, Jul 14, 2015 12:42 PM

CSG has the promise to bypass STL for generating printer G code.
What programs actually do this?

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

CSG has the promise to bypass STL for generating printer G code. What programs actually do this? -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
CL
Chow Loong Jin
Tue, Jul 14, 2015 1:43 PM

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 05:42:32AM -0700, L Boyd wrote:

CSG has the promise to bypass STL for generating printer G code.
What programs actually do this?

Huh, what? CSG as I know it is Constructional Solid Geometry, which is a
technique of creating 3D models by combining solids, implemented by libcgal and
libopencsg for openscad. Do you mean something else?

Also, generating G-code is a non-trivial thing. I don't really think
it should be part of a CAD program.

--
Kind regards,
Loong Jin

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 05:42:32AM -0700, L Boyd wrote: > CSG has the promise to bypass STL for generating printer G code. > What programs actually do this? Huh, what? CSG as I know it is Constructional Solid Geometry, which is a technique of creating 3D models by combining solids, implemented by libcgal and libopencsg for openscad. Do you mean something else? Also, generating G-code is a non-trivial thing. I don't really think it should be part of a CAD program. -- Kind regards, Loong Jin
TP
Torsten Paul
Tue, Jul 14, 2015 2:26 PM

Von: "L Boyd" lboyd@frontiernet.net

CSG has the promise to bypass STL for generating printer G code.
What programs actually do this?

The only one I know of, is IceSL (http://www.loria.fr/~slefebvr/icesl/).

For some discussion about IceSL, see the other thread:
http://forum.openscad.org/color-in-renderer-for-visualization-td12952.html

I think the bigger challenges with G-code generation (for 3d printers)
are things like support structures, bridge handling and similar stuff.
It might be nice to skip STL but on my totally personal wishlist for
slicer improvements, that would be very much at the bottom (just below
support for G2/G3 ;-)

ciao,
Torsten.

Von: "L Boyd" <lboyd@frontiernet.net> > CSG has the promise to bypass STL for generating printer G code. > What programs actually do this? > The only one I know of, is IceSL (http://www.loria.fr/~slefebvr/icesl/). For some discussion about IceSL, see the other thread: http://forum.openscad.org/color-in-renderer-for-visualization-td12952.html I think the bigger challenges with G-code generation (for 3d printers) are things like support structures, bridge handling and similar stuff. It might be nice to skip STL but on my totally personal wishlist for slicer improvements, that would be very much at the bottom (just below support for G2/G3 ;-) ciao, Torsten.
B
bobc
Tue, Jul 14, 2015 7:07 PM

RepRap Host Software, according to this blog post from 2011
http://blog.reprap.org/2011/10/say-goodbye-to-unsightly-stl-triangle.html. I
assume it still does.

There's a suggestion there that Marius added Export to CSG to make this
easier. It seems that printing from a CSG model was the "way of the future"
back then, but doesn't seem to have caught on.

It is strange how knowledge like this seems to get lost to the community,
and has to be "rediscovered".

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13150.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

RepRap Host Software, according to this blog post from 2011 http://blog.reprap.org/2011/10/say-goodbye-to-unsightly-stl-triangle.html. I assume it still does. There's a suggestion there that Marius added Export to CSG to make this easier. It seems that printing from a CSG model was the "way of the future" back then, but doesn't seem to have caught on. It is strange how knowledge like this seems to get lost to the community, and has to be "rediscovered". -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13150.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
TP
Torsten Paul
Tue, Jul 14, 2015 7:44 PM

On 07/14/2015 09:07 PM, bobc wrote:

RepRap Host Software, according to this blog post from 2011
http://blog.reprap.org/2011/10/say-goodbye-to-unsightly-stl-triangle.html. I
assume it still does.

Maybe, but I'd say this software is dead. It's not updated for 3 years
and https://reprappro.com/software/ does not even mention it.

There's a suggestion there that Marius added Export to CSG to make this
easier. It seems that printing from a CSG model was the "way of the future"
back then, but doesn't seem to have caught on.

I guess it hasn't because it's only easy at the first glance and the
benefit is quite limited for a big selection of models.

The article also says...

At the moment the supported OpenSCAD primitives are cubes, cylinders
(including frustums and cones), and spheres. I will add extruded polygons,
extruded imported DXFs, polyhedra, and imported STL files later (in that
order, which is also the order of difficulty of doing them...).

...and looking at the change history, that adding of more things never
happened. So the supported feature set is going to work for probably
3% of my own models.

There would be a number of nice benefits of using some higher level
interface between modeler and slicer (or more advanced file formats).
The most interesting one surely the possibility to retain the ideal
information for longer (e.g. leaving a circle a circle instead of
converting to a polygon early).
Getting this to work is not going to be easy, but it might happen
eventually. We'll see what the future brings :-).

ciao,
Torsten.

On 07/14/2015 09:07 PM, bobc wrote: > RepRap Host Software, according to this blog post from 2011 > http://blog.reprap.org/2011/10/say-goodbye-to-unsightly-stl-triangle.html. I > assume it still does. > Maybe, but I'd say this software is dead. It's not updated for 3 years and https://reprappro.com/software/ does not even mention it. > There's a suggestion there that Marius added Export to CSG to make this > easier. It seems that printing from a CSG model was the "way of the future" > back then, but doesn't seem to have caught on. > I guess it hasn't because it's only easy at the first glance and the benefit is quite limited for a big selection of models. The article also says... > > At the moment the supported OpenSCAD primitives are cubes, cylinders > > (including frustums and cones), and spheres. I will add extruded polygons, > > extruded imported DXFs, polyhedra, and imported STL files later (in that > > order, which is also the order of difficulty of doing them...). ...and looking at the change history, that adding of more things never happened. So the supported feature set is going to work for probably 3% of my own models. There would be a number of nice benefits of using some higher level interface between modeler and slicer (or more advanced file formats). The most interesting one surely the possibility to retain the ideal information for longer (e.g. leaving a circle a circle instead of converting to a polygon early). Getting this to work is not going to be easy, but it might happen eventually. We'll see what the future brings :-). ciao, Torsten.
N
Neon22
Wed, Jul 15, 2015 7:03 AM

Theoretically a raytracer like POVRay - which does evaluate CSG objects
natively - could be used to help create G-Code but its an open problem and
the slicing approach seems to be much more prevalent at this stage. There is
little advantage to traversing the CSG tree directly to generate slice based
g-code. You might as well tessellate to STL and then us the same slicer as
everyone else. (IMHO)

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13154.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Theoretically a raytracer like POVRay - which does evaluate CSG objects natively - could be used to help create G-Code but its an open problem and the slicing approach seems to be much more prevalent at this stage. There is little advantage to traversing the CSG tree directly to generate slice based g-code. You might as well tessellate to STL and then us the same slicer as everyone else. (IMHO) -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13154.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
LB
L Boyd
Wed, Jul 15, 2015 1:09 PM

Thanks for the replies. What started me on this path is knowing that most
printer firmware has very good circle routines to implement G02 and G03.
Going the triangle route loses the knowledge that you wanted a circle.

--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13167.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Thanks for the replies. What started me on this path is knowing that most printer firmware has very good circle routines to implement G02 and G03. Going the triangle route loses the knowledge that you wanted a circle. -- View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13167.html Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
TH
Tim Hawkins
Thu, Jul 16, 2015 1:39 AM

Most firmwares on the printers, just convert the arcs to a set of small
straight line segments. On Marlin for example it just gets converted to a
set of chords of 1mm length.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 21:10 L Boyd lboyd@frontiernet.net wrote:

Thanks for the replies. What started me on this path is knowing that most
printer firmware has very good circle routines to implement G02 and G03.
Going the triangle route loses the knowledge that you wanted a circle.

--
View this message in context:
http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13167.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

Most firmwares on the printers, just convert the arcs to a set of small straight line segments. On Marlin for example it just gets converted to a set of chords of 1mm length. On Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 21:10 L Boyd <lboyd@frontiernet.net> wrote: > Thanks for the replies. What started me on this path is knowing that most > printer firmware has very good circle routines to implement G02 and G03. > Going the triangle route loses the knowledge that you wanted a circle. > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.openscad.org/What-other-software-uses-CSG-tp13144p13167.html > Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@lists.openscad.org > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org >