Fusion360 and OpenSCAD
My local maker space (Generator VT) has been polite when I offer to
teach OpenSCAD, but the makers at Generator seem focused on Solid Works
and also on Fusion360. Some of this has to do with "I need to get a job
so I need Solid Works credentials" and some has to do with "I'm doing a
complex build and need a bill of materials and other features that Solid
Works offers".
I recently read a brief description of how to get started with Fusion360:
I immediately set out to write a comparable OpenSCAD script, to show
them what the alternative was. After a while, I began to really
understand how more difficult OpenSCAD is than Fusion360 (and its ilk).
I think that showing them my complex script would only push them away
rather than draw them in. This is due mostly to the large number of
translate() and rotate() invocations that are required to move the
various parts around to build the final object.
I wonder whether there is any way to add facilities like "attach this
object to that one at the mid point" or "extend this object in the
positive X direction from the X surface of that object" to OpenSCAD.
That is, are there any lessons which we can learn in terms of usability
and/or convenience?
Jon
This is a curious challenge jon,
I am a retired (well almost!) teacher and I can see a lot of value in
trying to encourage students with young agile minds to exercise their
potential with this kind of thinking. To me it a great fusion of
abstract mathematics with reality ie 3D shapes and it can be printed
out as an object. The various arguments put forward about how to extend
the language in a productive way always on these discussion groups, make
very interesting reading to me, however my understanding of matrix
algebra has always been primitive, so I get lost easily. Thanks to all
those who discuss and explore the many and varied topics at length.
I would like to encourage my current students to use openSCAD, and to
that end, I will be producing a number of short tutorial work sheets
that may be of use to other beginners, or maybe even people in Jon's
situation, needing a starting point to introduce the benefits of this
way of thinking at a very low entry point. So would these worksheets -
come challenges, be a useful starting point for beginners to see the
potential of openSCAD? I am happy to contribute my efforts so far and
over the next few weeks submit a few more???
I find openSCAD some what challenging like a crossword or a jigsaw
puzzle, only at the end, one can print it out and have some of value at
the end that is really unique!!! Students respond very positively to
this sort of thing.
In short, should we have a "kids" section for openSCAD?
Cheers, Rob
On 01/10/16 04:05, jon wrote:
My local maker space (Generator VT) has been polite when I offer to
teach OpenSCAD, but the makers at Generator seem focused on Solid
Works and also on Fusion360. Some of this has to do with "I need to
get a job so I need Solid Works credentials" and some has to do with
"I'm doing a complex build and need a bill of materials and other
features that Solid Works offers".
I recently read a brief description of how to get started with Fusion360:
I immediately set out to write a comparable OpenSCAD script, to show
them what the alternative was. After a while, I began to really
understand how more difficult OpenSCAD is than Fusion360 (and its
ilk). I think that showing them my complex script would only push
them away rather than draw them in. This is due mostly to the large
number of translate() and rotate() invocations that are required to
move the various parts around to build the final object.
I wonder whether there is any way to add facilities like "attach this
object to that one at the mid point" or "extend this object in the
positive X direction from the X surface of that object" to OpenSCAD.
That is, are there any lessons which we can learn in terms of
usability and/or convenience?
Jon
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
--
Rob Ward
Lake Tyers Beach, 3909
Lake Tyers Beach Website http://www.laketyersbeach.net.au
XP to XUbuntu http://www.laketyersbeach.net.au/XP2XU.html
On 10/01/2016 11:02 AM, Rob Ward wrote:
So would these worksheets - come challenges, be a useful
starting point for beginners to see the potential of openSCAD?
I am happy to contribute my efforts so far and over the next
few weeks submit a few more???
That would be awesome. Maybe it could be the beginning of
a tutorial next to the manual?
There are great resources scattered around on the web, as
Blog posts or on Thingiverse. Some of those with licenses
that confuse me (e.g. what about people who want to use
OpenSCAD to create a 3d printer design they want to sell.
Are those people allowed to use the code from CC-NC
tutorials? What about Makerspaces wanting to use it in
courses that have an entry fee? I don't know... ).
I always wanted to get something like this going, but I
don't have the didactic knowledge to give it a good
outline where one topic leads to the next. This means I'm
always getting stuck trying to sort the things to
discuss. The quite sad looking page with some notes is
gathering dust at
https://github.com/openscad/openscad/wiki/Ideas-for-Tutorial
In short, should we have a "kids" section for openSCAD?
Yes, please!
We could start with a single page, similar to the tips &
tricks page at
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/Tips_and_Tricks
and start moving things to sub-pages once it grows.
ciao,
Torsten.
On Oct 1, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Torsten Paul Torsten.Paul@gmx.de wrote:
On 10/01/2016 11:02 AM, Rob Ward wrote:
So would these worksheets - come challenges, be a useful
starting point for beginners to see the potential of openSCAD?
I am happy to contribute my efforts so far and over the next
few weeks submit a few more???
That would be awesome. Maybe it could be the beginning of
a tutorial next to the manual?
Doubly awesome, with an extra helping of awesomeness on top 😀 I'm teaching a course, Foundations of Computing, and my one indulgence is a module on 3D printing (which I have justified/rationalized because OpenSCAD is programming-based). So any resources that would help a group of decidedly non-programers be able to use this package would be great.
Michael
jon, I do not used it but it seems that the obiscad library
https://github.com/Obijuan/obiscad does something that may help you.
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Thanks for the encouraging response Torsten. Over the next few weeks I
will be following up last term's work and building on my small
collection of 2 worksheets. I am not full time and at the moment just
finding out what depth of projects suits students. Plus building in a
way for the teacher to monitor student's progress is also a useful
addition (ie just adding sign-off points strategically placed in the
document as the project is developed), and should not be obtrusive for
someone doing self instruction.
I am hoping that we will be able to publish these in a wiki manner where
they can be polished up by others as time goes on. I can see parents
being enormously impressed if their child began working productively
with openSCAD, I know I would be (even though mine are now +35 years
old, haha). I will need help with the publishing process to ensure this
goal is accomplished. I am not expecting many tutorials at this level
will be required as once a child's imagination takes off, much of the
existing helpful information will kick in.
Cheers, stay tuned,
Rob
On 02/10/16 07:28, Torsten Paul wrote:
On 10/01/2016 11:02 AM, Rob Ward wrote:
So would these worksheets - come challenges, be a useful
starting point for beginners to see the potential of openSCAD?
I am happy to contribute my efforts so far and over the next
few weeks submit a few more???
That would be awesome. Maybe it could be the beginning of
a tutorial next to the manual?
There are great resources scattered around on the web, as
Blog posts or on Thingiverse. Some of those with licenses
that confuse me (e.g. what about people who want to use
OpenSCAD to create a 3d printer design they want to sell.
Are those people allowed to use the code from CC-NC
tutorials? What about Makerspaces wanting to use it in
courses that have an entry fee? I don't know... ).
I always wanted to get something like this going, but I
don't have the didactic knowledge to give it a good
outline where one topic leads to the next. This means I'm
always getting stuck trying to sort the things to
discuss. The quite sad looking page with some notes is
gathering dust at
https://github.com/openscad/openscad/wiki/Ideas-for-Tutorial
In short, should we have a "kids" section for openSCAD?
Yes, please!
We could start with a single page, similar to the tips &
tricks page at
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/Tips_and_Tricks
and start moving things to sub-pages once it grows.
ciao,
Torsten.
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
--
Rob Ward
Lake Tyers Beach, 3909
Lake Tyers Beach Website http://www.laketyersbeach.net.au
XP to XUbuntu http://www.laketyersbeach.net.au/XP2XU.html
jon_bondy wrote
After a while, I began to really
understand how more difficult OpenSCAD is than Fusion360 (and its ilk).
I think that showing them my complex script would only push them away
rather than draw them in. This is due mostly to the large number of
translate() and rotate() invocations that are required to move the
various parts around to build the final object.
But once you have that complex script, changing bits of it such as the wall
thickness, the overall size or the number of doobries in the whatsit is a
simple editing exercise.
It can also be effectively held in version-control systems.
tp3 wrote
Some of those with licenses that confuse me (e.g. what about people who
want to use OpenSCAD to create a 3d printer design they want to sell. Are
those people allowed to use the code from CC-NC
tutorials?
The answer is to contact the author and ask them. Most of the stuff I
produce (nothing relevant to here yet) have CC_BY_NC licenses because I
don't want someone else making money from work I am giving away free.
However if someone wanted to offer me a reasonable cut, or if their case was
charitable or their use was negligable, I would be more than willing to give
them a commercial license.
mprogers wrote
I'm teaching a course, Foundations of Computing, and my one indulgence is
a module on 3D printing (which I have justified/rationalized because
OpenSCAD is programming-based).
Have you considered that OpenSCAD is to all external purposes a Data Flow
language that bears striking similarities to languages such as SISAL? (In
fact making OpenSCAD more like SISAL would be wonderful -- there's more
orthogonality and more powerful structures there, but little chance of it
happening.)
--
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Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
because I don't want someone else making money from work I am giving away
free.
Why? If you aren't intending to make money from it yourself, why stop
others?
On 3 October 2016 at 10:19, Richard Urwin soronlin+openscad@googlemail.com
wrote:
jon_bondy wrote
After a while, I began to really
understand how more difficult OpenSCAD is than Fusion360 (and its ilk).
I think that showing them my complex script would only push them away
rather than draw them in. This is due mostly to the large number of
translate() and rotate() invocations that are required to move the
various parts around to build the final object.
But once you have that complex script, changing bits of it such as the wall
thickness, the overall size or the number of doobries in the whatsit is a
simple editing exercise.
It can also be effectively held in version-control systems.
tp3 wrote
Some of those with licenses that confuse me (e.g. what about people who
want to use OpenSCAD to create a 3d printer design they want to sell. Are
those people allowed to use the code from CC-NC
tutorials?
The answer is to contact the author and ask them. Most of the stuff I
produce (nothing relevant to here yet) have CC_BY_NC licenses because I
don't want someone else making money from work I am giving away free.
However if someone wanted to offer me a reasonable cut, or if their case
was
charitable or their use was negligable, I would be more than willing to
give
them a commercial license.
mprogers wrote
I'm teaching a course, Foundations of Computing, and my one indulgence is
a module on 3D printing (which I have justified/rationalized because
OpenSCAD is programming-based).
Have you considered that OpenSCAD is to all external purposes a Data Flow
language that bears striking similarities to languages such as SISAL? (In
fact making OpenSCAD more like SISAL would be wonderful -- there's more
orthogonality and more powerful structures there, but little chance of it
happening.)
--
View this message in context: http://forum.openscad.org/
Fusion360-and-OpenSCAD-tp18493p18511.html
Sent from the OpenSCAD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
OpenSCAD mailing list
Discuss@lists.openscad.org
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
nophead wrote
because I don't want someone else making money from work I am giving away
free.
Why? If you aren't intending to make money from it yourself, why stop
others?
It's complex.
I could say that if you were working in a soup-kitchen, you would be
displeased to find that people were taking your food and selling it on. But
software is not an expendable resource so the analogy fails. To reach the
real argument we need to get into more esoteric language.
The CC/GPL/whatever is the basis of a gift-economy. In such an economy,
status is gained by giving stuff away. You see it in Beowulf, where the king
gives his favoured warriors gold rings. I have put time, energy and
expertise into generating a product with worth. It must have worth, or you
would not want to use it. I give this away for no cost because it pleases me
to help other people and in return I receive recognition. The people who
receive it recognise that it is a gift with worth. The fact that it is free
has value to me.
So imagine that you were running that soup-kitchen in the basement of an
apartment block and you hear that the landlord is advertising that the
apartments come with a free restaurant and thereore gets more applications
and can charge higher rents. You might feel that this is wrong. You might
tell him that you are slaving away in that kitchen for hours and that work
has a value that he would otherwise have to pay for. You would be happy to
provide restaurant services to his tenents for a reasonable sum, and if they
were to find their way to you on their own you would be happy to feed them,
but he should not be making money off your free gift.
--
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On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 03:59:51 -0700 (MST)
Richard Urwin soronlin+openscad@googlemail.com wrote:
nophead wrote
because I don't want someone else making money from work I am giving away
free.
Why? If you aren't intending to make money from it yourself, why stop
others?
It's complex.
I could say that if you were working in a soup-kitchen, you would be
displeased to find that people were taking your food and selling it on. But
software is not an expendable resource so the analogy fails. To reach the
real argument we need to get into more esoteric language.
The CC/GPL/whatever is the basis of a gift-economy.
GPL is a commons economy which is not the same thing as a gift economy at
all.
The examples you probably want are the BSD/MIT style licences.
</pedant>
Alan