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Temporary Rotation: Designer or Slicer?

NS
Nathan Sokalski
Sat, Aug 17, 2024 5:05 PM

There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other?

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.commailto:njsokalski@hotmail.com

There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other? Nathan Sokalski njsokalski@hotmail.com<mailto:njsokalski@hotmail.com>
DP
David Phillip Oster
Sat, Aug 17, 2024 6:16 PM

I prefer to do it in OpenSCAD, and document it:

// rotate([90, 0,0]) // for printing
WholeModel();

or, if I'm using the built-in customizer:

rotate([isPrinting?90:0, 0,0])WholeModel();

But then, I'm used to uploading to thingiverse the .scad and the .stl, and
I want it to be easy for someone to slice and print it. If part of the
model is settings in the slicer, then maintenance will be harder next year,
when I need to modify the .scad, or the slicer has new features that it
can't use with the year-old, saved, slicer project file.

On Sat, Aug 17, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nathan Sokalski via Discuss <
discuss@lists.openscad.org> wrote:

There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° or
180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). This is
very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura), my question
is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to do it in
OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the same, there is
always the possibility of certain curves or combinations of shapes being
rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is
one ever better than the other?

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.com


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

I prefer to do it in OpenSCAD, and document it: // rotate([90, 0,0]) // for printing WholeModel(); or, if I'm using the built-in customizer: rotate([isPrinting?90:0, 0,0])WholeModel(); But then, I'm used to uploading to thingiverse the .scad and the .stl, and I want it to be easy for someone to slice and print it. If part of the model is settings in the slicer, then maintenance will be harder next year, when I need to modify the .scad, or the slicer has new features that it can't use with the year-old, saved, slicer project file. On Sat, Aug 17, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nathan Sokalski via Discuss < discuss@lists.openscad.org> wrote: > There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° or > 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). This is > very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura), my question > is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to do it in > OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the same, there is > always the possibility of certain curves or combinations of shapes being > rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is > one ever better than the other? > > Nathan Sokalski > njsokalski@hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
JB
Jordan Brown
Sat, Aug 17, 2024 6:38 PM

Trivial rotations, usually the slicer.

Non-trivial, and in particular when there's multiple sub-parts to be
printed, usually in OpenSCAD.  I've used $preview, $t, and custom
variables (with customizer) to control whether OpenSCAD should create
the "natural" render or the "as printed" render.  Customizer is probably
best.

Trivial rotations, usually the slicer. Non-trivial, and in particular when there's multiple sub-parts to be printed, usually in OpenSCAD.  I've used $preview, $t, and custom variables (with customizer) to control whether OpenSCAD should create the "natural" render or the "as printed" render.  Customizer is probably best.
NS
Nathan Sokalski
Sat, Aug 17, 2024 6:38 PM

I understand all that, but like I said, my question is not about how to do it, but which one is better (not easier, but better). Everything you say is about how to & preferences, my question/inquiry is about differences (probably mostly unnoticable) in the result.

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.commailto:njsokalski@hotmail.com


From: David Phillip Oster via Discuss discuss@lists.openscad.org
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2024 2:16 PM
To: OpenSCAD general discussion Mailing-list discuss@lists.openscad.org
Cc: David Phillip Oster davidphilliposter@gmail.com
Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Temporary Rotation: Designer or Slicer?

I prefer to do it in OpenSCAD, and document it:

// rotate([90, 0,0]) // for printing
WholeModel();

or, if I'm using the built-in customizer:

rotate([isPrinting?90:0, 0,0])WholeModel();

But then, I'm used to uploading to thingiverse the .scad and the .stl, and I want it to be easy for someone to slice and print it. If part of the model is settings in the slicer, then maintenance will be harder next year, when I need to modify the .scad, or the slicer has new features that it can't use with the year-old, saved, slicer project file.

On Sat, Aug 17, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nathan Sokalski via Discuss <discuss@lists.openscad.orgmailto:discuss@lists.openscad.org> wrote:
There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other?

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.commailto:njsokalski@hotmail.com


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.orgmailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

I understand all that, but like I said, my question is not about how to do it, but which one is better (not easier, but better). Everything you say is about how to & preferences, my question/inquiry is about differences (probably mostly unnoticable) in the result. Nathan Sokalski njsokalski@hotmail.com<mailto:njsokalski@hotmail.com> ________________________________ From: David Phillip Oster via Discuss <discuss@lists.openscad.org> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2024 2:16 PM To: OpenSCAD general discussion Mailing-list <discuss@lists.openscad.org> Cc: David Phillip Oster <davidphilliposter@gmail.com> Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Temporary Rotation: Designer or Slicer? I prefer to do it in OpenSCAD, and document it: // rotate([90, 0,0]) // for printing WholeModel(); or, if I'm using the built-in customizer: rotate([isPrinting?90:0, 0,0])WholeModel(); But then, I'm used to uploading to thingiverse the .scad and the .stl, and I want it to be easy for someone to slice and print it. If part of the model is settings in the slicer, then maintenance will be harder next year, when I need to modify the .scad, or the slicer has new features that it can't use with the year-old, saved, slicer project file. On Sat, Aug 17, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nathan Sokalski via Discuss <discuss@lists.openscad.org<mailto:discuss@lists.openscad.org>> wrote: There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other? Nathan Sokalski njsokalski@hotmail.com<mailto:njsokalski@hotmail.com> _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org<mailto:discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org>
JB
Jordan Brown
Sat, Aug 17, 2024 6:46 PM

On 8/17/2024 11:38 AM, Nathan Sokalski via Discuss wrote:

I understand all that, but like I said, my question is not about how
to do it, but which one is better (not easier, but better). Everything
you say is about how to & preferences, my question/inquiry is about
differences (probably mostly unnoticable) in the result.

I'm not concerned about that at all.

On 8/17/2024 11:38 AM, Nathan Sokalski via Discuss wrote: > I understand all that, but like I said, my question is not about how > to do it, but which one is better (not easier, but better). Everything > you say is about how to & preferences, my question/inquiry is about > differences (probably mostly unnoticable) in the result. > I'm not concerned about that at all.
NH
nop head
Sat, Aug 17, 2024 6:52 PM

I always orient my printable objects in the orientation for printing when
F6 is pressed but I use $preview to orient them as they would be used in an
assembly view.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 at 19:47, Jordan Brown via Discuss <
discuss@lists.openscad.org> wrote:

On 8/17/2024 11:38 AM, Nathan Sokalski via Discuss wrote:

I understand all that, but like I said, my question is not about how to do
it, but which one is better (not easier, but better). Everything you say is
about how to & preferences, my question/inquiry is about differences
(probably mostly unnoticable) in the result.

I'm not concerned about that at all.


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

I always orient my printable objects in the orientation for printing when F6 is pressed but I use $preview to orient them as they would be used in an assembly view. On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 at 19:47, Jordan Brown via Discuss < discuss@lists.openscad.org> wrote: > On 8/17/2024 11:38 AM, Nathan Sokalski via Discuss wrote: > > I understand all that, but like I said, my question is not about how to do > it, but which one is better (not easier, but better). Everything you say is > about how to & preferences, my question/inquiry is about differences > (probably mostly unnoticable) in the result. > > > I'm not concerned about that at all. > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org >
GB
Glenn Butcher
Sat, Aug 17, 2024 10:00 PM

Firstoff, I do my workflow on a part-by-part basis; the locomotive I
recently posted is made up of about 28 individually printed
assemblies/parts, 40something individual parts in all. For each
part/assembly I do all the positioning for subsequent placement of
supports in the slicer.  After I get all the supporting done, I save a
slicer project file of it, for use later in assembling a collection of
parts on a single build plate for printing.

I modeled the locomotive in HO scale inches, and I scale parts to
millimeters  in OpenSCAD just prior to exporting the stl.  I do this so
I can pack up a release .zip for others to download.  I don't share my
part slicer project files, too much about my specific situation in those.

Accordingly, I'd say where you do various scaling/rotating/translating
is somewhat influenced by your particular workflow.  All else equal, I
don't think there's a particular general benefit to doing it in one or
the other...

On 8/17/2024 11:05 AM, Nathan Sokalski via Discuss wrote:

There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90°
or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports).
This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case
Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is
better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result
SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves
or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if
it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other?

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.com


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email todiscuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

Firstoff, I do my workflow on a part-by-part basis; the locomotive I recently posted is made up of about 28 individually printed assemblies/parts, 40something individual parts in all. For each part/assembly I do all the positioning for subsequent placement of supports in the slicer.  After I get all the supporting done, I save a slicer project file of it, for use later in assembling a collection of parts on a single build plate for printing. I modeled the locomotive in HO scale inches, and I scale parts to millimeters  in OpenSCAD just prior to exporting the stl.  I do this so I can pack up a release .zip for others to download.  I don't share my part slicer project files, too much about my specific situation in those. Accordingly, I'd say where you do various scaling/rotating/translating is somewhat influenced by your particular workflow.  All else equal, I don't think there's a particular general benefit to doing it in one or the other... On 8/17/2024 11:05 AM, Nathan Sokalski via Discuss wrote: > There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° > or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). > This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case > Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is > better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result > SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves > or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if > it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other? > > Nathan Sokalski > njsokalski@hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email todiscuss-leave@lists.openscad.org
DM
Douglas Miller
Sun, Aug 18, 2024 11:32 AM

I've never observed any difference in the quality of the printed model.
My practice is to design an object in OpenSCAD using whatever
orientation is simplest to model, then use the slicer (if needed) to
rotate it into optimum orientation for printing.

On 8/17/2024 1:05 PM, Nathan Sokalski wrote:

There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90°
or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports).
This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case
Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is
better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result
SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves
or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if
it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other?

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.com

I've never observed any difference in the quality of the printed model. My practice is to design an object in OpenSCAD using whatever orientation is simplest to model, then use the slicer (if needed) to rotate it into optimum orientation for printing. On 8/17/2024 1:05 PM, Nathan Sokalski wrote: > There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° > or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). > This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case > Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is > better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result > SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of certain curves > or combinations of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if > it is visually the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other? > > Nathan Sokalski > njsokalski@hotmail.com
RW
Raymond West
Sun, Aug 18, 2024 1:02 PM

As Douglas said, since print orientation is dependant on the printer.
Rotation in the slicer does not lose details in the digital model (but
obviously can in the final object, the same as if it was rotated before
using the slicer).

On 18/08/2024 12:32, Douglas Miller via Discuss wrote:

I've never observed any difference in the quality of the printed
model. My practice is to design an object in OpenSCAD using whatever
orientation is simplest to model, then use the slicer (if needed) to
rotate it into optimum orientation for printing.

On 8/17/2024 1:05 PM, Nathan Sokalski wrote:

There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by
90° or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for
supports). This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in
my case Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about
whether it is better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though
the result SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of
certain curves or combinations of shapes being rendered
slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is
one ever better than the other?

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.com


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email todiscuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

As Douglas said, since print orientation is dependant on the printer. Rotation in the slicer does not lose details in the digital model (but obviously can in the final object, the same as if it was rotated before using the slicer). On 18/08/2024 12:32, Douglas Miller via Discuss wrote: > I've never observed any difference in the quality of the printed > model. My practice is to design an object in OpenSCAD using whatever > orientation is simplest to model, then use the slicer (if needed) to > rotate it into optimum orientation for printing. > > On 8/17/2024 1:05 PM, Nathan Sokalski wrote: >> There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by >> 90° or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for >> supports). This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in >> my case Cura), my question is not about how to do it, but about >> whether it is better to do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though >> the result SHOULD be the same, there is always the possibility of >> certain curves or combinations of shapes being rendered >> slightly differently, even if it is visually the same onscreen. Is >> one ever better than the other? >> >> Nathan Sokalski >> njsokalski@hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email todiscuss-leave@lists.openscad.org
RW
Rogier Wolff
Sun, Aug 18, 2024 4:44 PM

And my policy is that if I want to print it again, I don't want to be
"reinventing the wheel" as to what orentation works. I also want to
DOCUMENT for later-me how it should be printed. So I like to do it in
openscad.

Of course in 95 % of cases, it'll be blatantly obvious how to print
it. But just to be save I like to document it in a permanent file.
(I don't use the "save this project" feature in the slicer).

Roger. 

On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 07:32:51AM -0400, Douglas Miller via Discuss wrote:

I've never observed any difference in the quality of the printed model. My
practice is to design an object in OpenSCAD using whatever orientation is
simplest to model, then use the slicer (if needed) to rotate it into optimum
orientation for printing.

On 8/17/2024 1:05 PM, Nathan Sokalski wrote:

There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90°
or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports).
This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura),
my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to
do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the
same, there is always the possibility of certain curves or combinations
of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually
the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other?

Nathan Sokalski
njsokalski@hotmail.com


OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

--
** R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl ** https://www.BitWizard.nl/ ** +31-15-2049110 **
**    Delftechpark 11 2628 XJ  Delft, The Netherlands.  KVK: 27239233    **
f equals m times a. When your f is steady, and your m is going down
your a is going up.  -- Chris Hadfield about flying up the space shuttle.

And my policy is that if I want to print it again, I don't want to be "reinventing the wheel" as to what orentation works. I also want to DOCUMENT for later-me how it should be printed. So I like to do it in openscad. Of course in 95 % of cases, it'll be blatantly obvious how to print it. But just to be save I like to document it in a permanent file. (I don't use the "save this project" feature in the slicer). Roger. On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 07:32:51AM -0400, Douglas Miller via Discuss wrote: > I've never observed any difference in the quality of the printed model. My > practice is to design an object in OpenSCAD using whatever orientation is > simplest to model, then use the slicer (if needed) to rotate it into optimum > orientation for printing. > > On 8/17/2024 1:05 PM, Nathan Sokalski wrote: > > There are many cases in which I need to rotate one of my models by 90° > > or 180° before printing (to improve or avoid the need for supports). > > This is very easy to do in OpenSCAD and most slicers (in my case Cura), > > my question is not about how to do it, but about whether it is better to > > do it in OpenSCAD or the slicer. Even though the result SHOULD be the > > same, there is always the possibility of certain curves or combinations > > of shapes being rendered slightly differently, even if it is visually > > the same onscreen. Is one ever better than the other? > > > > Nathan Sokalski > > njsokalski@hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org -- ** R.E.Wolff@BitWizard.nl ** https://www.BitWizard.nl/ ** +31-15-2049110 ** ** Delftechpark 11 2628 XJ Delft, The Netherlands. KVK: 27239233 ** f equals m times a. When your f is steady, and your m is going down your a is going up. -- Chris Hadfield about flying up the space shuttle.