[OpenSCAD] Discuss manifoldness, co-incident faces edges etc

Tim V. Shaporev tim.shaporev at auriga.ru
Thu Nov 14 09:34:16 EST 2019


I am interested in the epicycles sample too because I could not 
comprehend what the problem is (a minute of self-advertising :-)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3483143
and I'd appreciate new idea(s)

On 11/14/2019 5:36 PM, Dan Shriver wrote:
> Thanks Doug. I can provide an example next month when I have access to 
> the code again.  I did epicycles and things like them and one surface 
> looped from the outside into the inside.
> 
> There probably are tools / algorithms for "fixing" stuff like this since 
> it is a general problem in making 3D volumes (when one has loops, voids).
> 
> I don't believe I was using sweep at the time.  I think I did some ugly 
> homegrown thing where I did a linear extrude of an epicycle.  I would 
> "gradually" add a term by tacking it on (with a tiny fraction 
> multiplier) doing another extrude, increasing the multiple.... Until the 
> term was at 100% then I'd add a new term....
> 
> Deprecating STL support sounds like curing a headache with hemlock.  I'm 
> not going to argue that STL isn't a seriously flawed format, but it is 
> accepted by a wide range of 3D printers.  Maybe print a warning to the 
> console that suggests another format(s) on export to STL, nudge people 
> in the right direction but don't force them to abandon something they 
> might require.  You might have meant that yourself as you said you can't 
> remove it but the phrase "deprecate STL" was also used, which spooks me.
> 
> On Thursday, November 14, 2019, Doug Moen <doug at moens.org 
> <mailto:doug at moens.org>> wrote:
> 
>     __
>     On Thu, Nov 14, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Dan Shriver wrote:
>>     Ideally I'd like to see some way to fix manifold issues.
>>
>>     For instance, I like to play with epicycles and the like. 
>>     Unfortunately, these shapes, while aesthetically pleasing tend to
>>     do a lot of intersecting loops etc.  The end result is they are
>>     unprintable.
> 
>     Hi Dan. If you sweep a shape through an epicycle, then technically,
>     the resulting mesh will be manifold, but it will be self intersecting.
> 
>     I know nophead said something slightly different, but my definition
>     of "self intersecting" is: there are two faces, anywhere in the
>     model, that intersect each other.
> 
>     Normally, a slicer program should be able to print a model that is
>     manifold but self intersecting. But you may run into problems that
>     prevent the model from being printable.
> 
>     One reason why an epicycle mesh might be unprintable is because it
>     becomes accidently non-manifold as a result of export to STL. At the
>     point where two regions of the swept path intersect each other,
>     there might be two vertices that coincide. If the mesh
>     representation contains topology information, then the topology will
>     tell the 3D printer slicer that those vertices are actually
>     distinct, and there's no problem. However, when you export to STL,
>     then the topology information is lost, and those coinciding vertices
>     will be identified as the same vertex, and that makes the mesh
>     non-manifold. Which means you can't print it.
> 
>     I think that we need to do two things to fix this problem. We need
>     to change OpenSCAD to preserve topology information when processing
>     and exporting meshes. And we need to deprecate the STL file format.
>     Obviously we can't remove STL support. But we need to educate our
>     users that exporting to STL destroys topology information, which can
>     sometimes make a mesh unprintable. We need to explain the benefits
>     of alternate file formats that support topology information, such as
>     OBJ and 3MF.
> 
>     ---
>     I think that OpenSCAD should automatically repair self
>     intersections, but only in the case where CGAL fails with a
>     self-intersection error. Otherwise, we should leave the model the
>     way it is, in order to satisfy users who don't want OpenSCAD to mess
>     around with their carefully specified mesh for unnecessary reasons.
>     OpenSCAD should also provide a `repair_self_intersections` module,
>     so that you can do it yourself. You might need to repair self
>     intersections if they are causing problems upstream. For example,
>     you might do this if you are exporting to STL.
> 
> 
> 
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